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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MiRai View Post
    I don't think we're discussing the same thing here...

    There is an exploit where you can "respawn" a boss right in front of you by abusing the layering system, which, from the instructions I've seen floating around the internet, is more involved than resetting a dungeon. You can literally stay locked inside of a boss room and farm them non-stop, without having to re-clear anything leading up to them—just pick the boss that drops the thing you want, farm them endlessly until they do, and then move onto the next.
    Possibly? The Reddit post I read for the raid reset exploit were pretty much identical how we reset dungeons. Maybe they're different and I just wasn't paying attention.

    I hope so, because manually resetting dungeons like Maraudon and BRD is a huge PITA.

  2. #12

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    I’m not taking any chances and will not be doing any instance resets until the banhammer hits. Im already getting reported by so many people for multiboxing. Just dont want to be auto-flagged by Blizz.
    Yup, the method for dungeon reset and last mob reset has some similarities. Why take unnecessary chances? I rather wait and see for now

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apatheist View Post
    Possibly? The Reddit post I read for the raid reset exploit were pretty much identical how we reset dungeons. Maybe they're different and I just wasn't paying attention.

    I hope so, because manually resetting dungeons like Maraudon and BRD is a huge PITA.
    BRD isn’t the worst reset... you can go into molten core and drop back out again instantly or just go to the bar, drop down to incendius and run out that way.
    and there is a tell tell way to see if you’ve been using the same exploit. When you reset BRD, do you spawn back at the entrance, or do you spawn back at emp? I mean if how you reset the dungeon is portal a mage... log out the other toons while disbanding the group totally... and then relogging them all and inviting them to the mages group before summoning the mage back to the instance... (or just out side, this is vanilla after all) then that’s not layer hopping at a boss.

    Quote Originally Posted by MiRai View Post
    I don't think we're discussing the same thing here...

    There is an exploit where you can "respawn" a boss right in front of you by abusing the layering system, which, from the instructions I've seen floating around the internet, is more involved than resetting a dungeon. You can literally stay locked inside of a boss room and farm them non-stop, without having to re-clear anything leading up to them—just pick the boss that drops the thing you want, farm them endlessly until they do, and then move onto the next.
    People were literally using this to stand behind the throne in BRD, reset emp, and kill... rinse and repeat in order to get ironfoe... and such like.
    Last edited by MiRai : 09-16-2019 at 04:42 PM Reason: Merged

  4. #14
    Member Ughmahedhurtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apatheist View Post
    Possibly? The Reddit post I read for the raid reset exploit were pretty much identical how we reset dungeons. Maybe they're different and I just wasn't paying attention.

    I hope so, because manually resetting dungeons like Maraudon and BRD is a huge PITA.
    Why is manually resetting BRD/Maraudon a PITA?
    Now playing: WoW (Garona)

  5. #15

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    Layering is GAME BREAKING... end of story
    Anyone disagreeing has never played or remember the REAL CLASSIC...
    The latest bug just reinforces the above stated fact, in addition to the abuse in open world farming and leveling, which are not bugs of course but expected side-effects of layering...

    PS: the instance reset method is completely different than the instance layering bug. You start from the beginning of the instance and the limit of 5 clears per hour still remains!
    Last edited by flou : 09-16-2019 at 05:24 PM

  6. #16
    Member JohnGabriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flou View Post
    Layering is GAME BREAKING... end of story
    Anyone disagreeing has never played or remember the REAL CLASSIC...
    The latest bug just reinforces the above stated fact, in addition to the abuse in open world farming and leveling, which are not bugs of course but expected side-effects of layering...
    I'm not sure layering is much of a problem at all.

    For one its temporary, until the server login queues are gone.

    And while yes you can abuse layers to switch to another when the mobs run out for non-stop farming, Blizzard themselves said this was not much of an issue. I think its the hyper-spawns. If you're in a group and another group is nearby, the mobs you kill instantly respawn. There is no need for layer hopping at all.

    So both the layering, and hyper-spawning, will likely be removed once fewer people are playing and neither are needed.

  7. #17
    Multiboxologist MiRai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGabriel View Post
    I'm not sure layering is much of a problem at all.

    For one its temporary, until the server login queues are gone.
    Layers will be collapsed when the next phase of Classic begins, and queues are expected to stay, or even become worse, as there won't be more than one layer to dump players into.

    Also, there was a small update to this from Lore at Blizzard:

    Soooooo since I’m seeing a lot of confusion (here and elsewhere), here’s some insight into how we draw the line between what makes something a punishable exploit versus a “happy little accident.”

    The key factor here is intent. Did the player do something with the specific intention of causing a glitch to occur, and did they do it order to exploit said glitch for their own benefit?

    This recent glitch makes a pretty clean example. The players who were abusing it had to do some Very Weird Stuff to cause it to occur, and then did so repeatedly. No reasonable person would expect that this behavior was intended, and the players involved had to go out of their way to cause it. It’s obviously unintended, it’s obviously a glitch, and the people who abused it were obviously exploiting said glitch for their own benefit. That’s pretty open and shut.
    Someone mentioned Esfand’s random MC reset in this thread, which is a pretty clean example of the other end of the spectrum. In that case, they just turned up to raid and the instance had been reset. They didn’t do anything intentional to cause it or go looking for reproduction steps so they could abuse it - in fact, they reported it to us and didn’t continue until they got confirmation that it was out of their control (and that we wouldn’t consider it an exploit if they cleared).

    Side note for the curious: that was a completely separate bug that has existed since 2004, and actually happened several times back then, it just wasn’t being broadcast to thousands of viewers at the time.

    Obviously, neither situation is ideal - we try our best to provide a fair playing field for everyone - but there’s a pretty massive difference between “the instance is reset and we don’t know why” and “if we do this One Weird Trick we can infinitely farm this dungeon boss.” That’s the key factor that turns something from an accident into an exploit.

    This ended up being longer than I expected so I’ll wrap it up with one last caveat: there is a lot of context and nuance that goes into these situations, and they’re not usually as cut and dry as these two examples. We end up making a lot of judgement calls based on the specifics of each exploit as well as their overall impact on the game (the phrase “clever use of game mechanics” originally came from one such convoluted situation). These two cases just happen to be pretty obvious.

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ages/301488/82
    Last edited by MiRai : 09-16-2019 at 11:14 PM Reason: Merged
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  8. #18

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    Looks like bans for layering went out.
    https://reddit.com/r/classicwow/comm...ing_to_go_out/

    if if you didn’t get banned should be good IMO.
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  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGabriel View Post
    I'm not sure layering is much of a problem at all.

    For one its temporary, until the server login queues are gone.

    And while yes you can abuse layers to switch to another when the mobs run out for non-stop farming, Blizzard themselves said this was not much of an issue. I think its the hyper-spawns. If you're in a group and another group is nearby, the mobs you kill instantly respawn. There is no need for layer hopping at all.

    So both the layering, and hyper-spawning, will likely be removed once fewer people are playing and neither are needed.
    The mats, BOE, recipes etc farmed during phase 1 with layering will negatively impact the game economy permanently, affecting ALL phases!
    Why you believe the Blizzard morons ... what do you except, to admit they f@cked up with layering?

  10. #20

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    Initially reading this thread I was concerned about using the alt method to reset my team at the start of the instance without leaving the instance.

    After getting more details and understanding people were repeatedly farming bosses over and over without clearing to them I agree that is definitely an exploit.

    I don't know if the alt resetting my instance while my team is logged out is even using another layer. Usually they come into the same layer as my other team members so I wouldn't think so. Regardless I don't think that the alt reset approach is exploiting (I have to clear the whole dungeon again) and unless/until I hear otherwise I plan to continue using it.

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