Big nerfs on Demo Shout on Warriors

[Hardcore Scape]

Most of his threat in those videos is coming from the combined TPS caused by consumables, buffs and items like thunderfury/force reactive disk though. Ret aura, thorns, shield spikes, dragonbreath chili, etc. Demoralizing shout never caused enough threat to hold agro by itself.

To the people saying Blizzard are "nerfing" things -- this is incorrect. They're fixing errors that weren't working correctly to begin with based on their reference server. Raid experience was being calculated incorrectly. Demo shout threat was being calculated incorrectly. These are fixes, not nerfs.

If you've already started a team with a warrior tank and you're otherwise happy with it, don't reroll because of these changes. Once you have access to some of the higher level gear and the right consumables your AE TPS will be higher than it was spamming demo shout pre-fix.

Just correcting him, he claims no one ever spammed demo shout for threat and he is just plain wrong. When the pulls are big, it is still way worth it. I am still able to do it post nerf, no extra hit threat. I don't think a lot of the stuff in his video will work, I have already seen some stuff take prio over thorns for example, and then thorns has no effect.

[Apatheist]

Just correcting him, he claims no one ever spammed demo shout for threat and he is just plain wrong. When the pulls are big, it is still way worth it. I am still able to do it post nerf, no extra hit threat. I don't think a lot of the stuff in his video will work, I have already seen some stuff take prio over thorns for example, and then thorns has no effect.

If you're talking about fiery shield (warlock imp skill) -- it doesn't stack with thorns. Thorns should stack with ret aura, shield spikes, consumables, etc. though. If it doesn't it's a bug and should be reported.

[rosuto]

Just correcting him, he claims no one ever spammed demo shout for threat and he is just plain wrong. When the pulls are big, it is still way worth it. I am still able to do it post nerf, no extra hit threat. I don't think a lot of the stuff in his video will work, I have already seen some stuff take prio over thorns for example, and then thorns has no effect.

I mean, I never claimed that, but OK.


I'll extrapolate a bit. "Demo never provided that much threat in Vanilla or on Pservers", I don't think you're arguing with that part of my statement (43 at max rank). The issue is the last part of my comment correct? Let me clarify, there are situations where Demo is good, when pulling very large groups for example. I never said Demo Shout is never used, but that typically it isn't worth it. (Pulling 30+ mobs in Tier 3 with 10 consumables and Thunderfury is not a common situation).

Battle Shout max rank generates 70 threat per target in combat being buffed, including pets. Lets say X is numbers of people buffed you're a WLMMP that's 6. Y is the number of enemies. If Y is more than 10, Demo Shout is better, but if Y is less than 10, Battle Shout is better as Demo is a static 43 buffed to 64 from Defensive Stance and Defiance. If there is no pet involved, it becomes 8 enemies.

(70 * 1.3 * 1.15 * X)/Y

[Apatheist]

The issue is, this is actually how it was in classic at this point.

The other issue is, they are targeting this "fix" as a way to fix the "aoe meta", but it just demonstrates a total lack of understanding of what is happening. This is only going to push people towards mage based aoe even more. The best/most efficient groups were already 3 or 4 mages, with 1 warlock and a healer. Now, threat generation is even more difficult for warriors, which makes them even less desirable, so, if groups were already NOT taking tanks when they could generate threat, why would they take tanks at all now when they can't, and they are not needed?

Demo/battle shout threat were never enough to hold agro by themselves during vanilla. You used them as tools to grab initial threat away from healers and then as supplemental threat while all of your reactive buffs/items caused threat. Most of warriors AE threat comes from items like force reactive disk, thorns, ret aura, etc.

Tanks were never needed for 15-55 content. A "tank" while leveling was just somebody who had enough armor to survive. Nobody I knew actually spec'd for tanking until 60. The only difference is people are better players now and understand how to abuse mages ability to AE and kite large groups because that's standard practice in most retail dungeons since Wrath.

Anyway, the point is the point is that all the doomsayers crying that Blizzard is RUINING CLASSIC!!1™ are being silly. The change was made to correct an error and bring the threat value of shouts in line with their classic reference client. It's more classic now than it was before. If you're a no changes guy (as I am) then this is a good fix.