5 Man Caster Comp

[Hadur]

Hey everyone,

Have spent the last few weeks lurking as I was on the fence about multiboxing for Classic. Reading here and watching the excellent video content being produced had me tempted and then the free BFA at 60 is the icing for me to allow me dip into retail if I wish. I previously multiboxed back in Wrath but only 2 chars so I am expecting a skill curve with 5. I do not want to be pushing for insane times on clears so a perfect min-max setup is not necessarily what I am after. I find myself time limited due to work / family so get on at odd times and want a self sustainable team that at level 60 can get through normal dungeons and become a funnel for farming mats/gold for my main and simply to have something challenging to do when I login. I have played Vanilla for around 6 months prior to TBC so I know what's in front of me in a sense! I'm really only interested in PVE but when BGs come out I intend on dipping in on my main char but could be tempted to box in there. I have no issues with a slow level to 60 as this is a multi-month project for me as I might sneak an hour a night in. I'm planning on leveling through questing primarily and running instances when I hit the right level.

Anyway, background aside, onto my questions for those who are progressing through their leveling and who might have experience with different spellcaster groups! I have done a lot of reading and it seems the most popular comp for caster groups is Warrior, Holy Priest and 3x Frost Mages. That's tempting me for the simplicity of 3x DPS being the same class and may well be my first group I level. My main will be a priest, I played Shadow and would be considering going that way longer term but I'm not opposed to staying Holy.

The comp I had in mind before seeing the various posts was Pally tank, Priest Heal, Lock, Mage, Boomkin. Only one person had this exact setup from the list of teams thread so I know at least one person has had this thought so I'm not crazy :P

My thoughts for that specific comp were if I did go Shadow Priest full time I could swap the Boomkin into Resto which gives me good AoE heals or spec it into Guardian and swap the Pally into heals (I'm worried about Pally healing, have never tried it). I'm not a fan of melee playstyle which is why I am considering a Pally as a tank as DPS Warrior isn't for me in a scenario where I wanted to rotate. It's also a strong buffing group, has good armor diversity for gearing and if I only decided to level 1 group, I have 5 individual classes with 3 hybrids for max flexibility.

How viable would that be for end game boxing given my goals of just being able to clear instances in a reasonable time with average skill?

I'm worried the Boomkin would just be dead weight for DPS but a DOT group with Boomkin, spriest, Affi lock could be interesting. Innervate, BRes, and MoTW are in my mind and the only other option I have here without duplicating a class is Hunter which I'm not opposed to! Have people found Boomkin to be viable in their 5 man setup?

Am I nuts to not consider Warrior as my forever tank given the style of comp I am thinking of or would Pally/Druid stand up as good?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and thanks for reading.

[nodoze]

... I do not want to be pushing for insane times on clears so a perfect min-max setup is not necessarily what I am after.
...
want a self sustainable team that at level 60 can get through normal dungeons and become a funnel for farming mats/gold for my main and simply to have something challenging to do when I login. ...
... I'm really only interested in PVE but when BGs come out I intend on dipping in on my main char but could be tempted to box in there. ...
... seems the most popular comp for caster groups is Warrior, Holy Priest and 3x Frost Mages. That's tempting me for the simplicity of 3x DPS being the same class and may well be my first group I level. My main will be a priest, I played Shadow and would be considering going that way longer term but I'm not opposed to staying Holy.

The comp I had in mind before seeing the various posts was Pally tank, Priest Heal, Lock, Mage, Boomkin. ... I'm not a fan of melee playstyle which is why I am considering a Pally as a tank as DPS Warrior isn't for me in a scenario where I wanted to rotate. It's also a strong buffing group, has good armor diversity for gearing and if I only decided to level 1 group, I have 5 individual classes with 3 hybrids for max flexibility.

How viable would that be for end game boxing given my goals of just being able to clear instances in a reasonable time with average skill?
...
Am I nuts to not consider Warrior as my forever tank given the style of comp I am thinking of or would Pally/Druid stand up as good?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and thanks for reading.

Sometimes in life "Less is More" and often it is better to do fewer things really well than to do many things poorly.

Reading all the above with a Priest main as your primary goal I recommend you do either:

Tank+Priest+3Mages;
Tank+Priest+2Mages+Warlock;
Tank+Priest+Mage+2Warlocks;

Any true Tank (Warrior, Paladin, Druid) will work fine for Dungeons, each with their pros/cons, with the main consideration being if you ever want to try to use your Dungeon tank as a Raid tank pretty much only Warriors are accepted. Since you don't like melee play-style and for multiple other reasons (bubbles/LoH/cleanses/off-heals/etc) I would recommend Paladin as they can push a lot of overall threat on lots of mobs and if needed reduce the threat of your party...

Some other comments are that you can't effectively box in BattleGrounds as follow is disabled which would leave WPVP as your only non-PVE boxing option and that wouldn't be an emphasis on a PVE server...

If my understanding is correct it is generally considered that there are most 3 Hybrid classes (Druids, Paladins, & Shaman) in Classic WoW but there can only be 2 of those classes in a given party since Paladins are locked to the Alliance and Shaman are locked to Horde. To me only Druids & Paladins are the true Hybrids as the are the only class that can be true Tanks, Healers, & DPS (after paying the Hybrid Tax).

[Feint90]

I am currently running a druid tank, warrior dps, warlock, mage and a paladin healer and I can tell you a boomkin is dead weight. They don't have the mana to keep up fights and will run out mid fight and not having a wand leaves them useless.

In your case I would prob go druid tank, paladin healer, spriest, mage, lock. Or go 1 melee, 1 tank, healer, 2 ranged but you said you did not want to go that route. Healing on druid is mostly just spamming full heals as the hots are quite expensive for the little healing they do. Paladin healing is quite easy as they have very few skills to be decent healers.

On the druid tank I can tell you it is viable, even though most people won't believe you but druids are the best tank in MC in pre-raid gear and do fine in dungeons. Paladins on the other hand are a little tricky since they don't have a taunt, meaning if you ever lose threat to your clothies, you better have bubble on speed-dial or they will die pretty fast.

I would also advice against a mixed comp if you never done so, especially in classic as it is a lot harder then it is on retail to manage different classes in my opinion. It would be a lot easier to get a known working comp like tank/healer 3x mages to get to know how to handle 5 toons, work out your setup and optimize it and then try a mixed comp later on.

On the end-game part. I picked a mixed group because I could not decide what I wanted to main, and warrior, druid and warlock are on the list. Mage is there for food and portals and paladin as healer since he is most mana-efficient of all the healers. And they bring blessings (5 min sucks but they do keep mana rolling). It is a lot harder, but it gives you more options later down the line but you do have to get there before burning out.

Also, if you only have an hour an day, I would again advice you to pick a zerg group otherwise you won't be able to finish most dungeons.

[Hadur]

Thank you both for your excellent insight, I think I will look more seriously at a Mage heavy setup as I do have that worry about the end game complexity of the mixed classes. I'm curious as to the impact of going 2x Mage and 1x Warlock Vs 3x Mages. Does it impact the micromanagement significantly? From memory Warlocks are pets, SB & DoTs (which I assume we would avoid) and curses for leveling -- I got my Lock to mid 30s in Vanilla before stopping so I might be wrong.

Thanks for the insight on the Druid situation, I had feared Boomkin would be an issue but Feral as an MT is interesting. I won't be going near raids on my tank and this would just be for 5 mans and I assume the added benefit of being a stealthy could help with larger pulls when I can handle it.

I have a bit longer than an hour a day but that's my goal for levelling. 2nd baby on the way very soon so I know in a few months time that I could get back to 2 hours or so every other day (gotta get my sleep in!) so dungeons would be ok at that point

[nodoze]

Thank you both for your excellent insight, I think I will look more seriously at a Mage heavy setup as I do have that worry about the end game complexity of the mixed classes. I'm curious as to the impact of going 2x Mage and 1x Warlock Vs 3x Mages. Does it impact the micromanagement significantly? From memory Warlocks are pets, SB & DoTs (which I assume we would avoid) and curses for leveling -- I got my Lock to mid 30s in Vanilla before stopping so I might be wrong.

Thanks for the insight on the Druid situation, I had feared Boomkin would be an issue but Feral as an MT is interesting. I won't be going near raids on my tank and this would just be for 5 mans and I assume the added benefit of being a stealthy could help with larger pulls when I can handle it.

I have a bit longer than an hour a day but that's my goal for levelling. 2nd baby on the way very soon so I know in a few months time that I could get back to 2 hours or so every other day (gotta get my sleep in!) so dungeons would be ok at that point

A single Warlock pet doesn't have to be complicated as you can just take the imp for stam buff for the team or have a void on defensive for an off-tank (especially when you have a real tank in the party).

2Mage+Warlock rotations don't have to be complicated either and sometimes it is best to just be wanding and/or doing 1 button single target DPS while a true Tank holds them there for you. If your tank is holding aggro and the mages are AoEing while stationary the Warlock can also... While yes there is some overhead and extra complexity the utility to the team can be massive... You can summon team mates back after they vendor stuff and at cap, if you take your main elsewhere (like to Raid or do BGs or what not) you just summon him back to the team when you want to start making gold again (because the rest of the team is waiting for the main at the dungeon).

The above being said 3 Mages is certainly less complex and somewhat more DPS (at least till Phase 4 or 5 when I think Warlocks can catch up).

A druid tank can certainly work but would not be my recommendation for a first PVE dungeon grinding team. Druids can't use consumables nor engineering items and can't really off heal nor remove debuffs without shifting form & becoming very exposed which often will mean a wipe. Paladin tanks can do all of that and more (especially with free water) considering bubbles, LoH, & even give Threat Reduction to your DPS and main healer (in addition to having great threat to begin with) and can even resurrect your healer an unlimited amount of times while you are learning. That being said if you plan to main a Druid and/or really want/need one for some reason they certainly can work.

[Andreauk]

I tried RFC with my lock x1 mages x2 holy priest, but my poor warrior couldn't hold aggro no matter how long I left it before attacking. I used taunt too.. but wow threat is way too ropey.

[nodoze]

I tried RFC with my lock x1 mages x2 holy priest, but my poor warrior couldn't hold aggro no matter how long I left it before attacking.

Have you tried your Warrior in level 10+ Defensive Stance (upping Threat) focusing on high Threat abilities like 'Heroic Strike' (when Revenge isn't available)?

At Level 10+ you should also have a hard Taunt & at Level 16+ if you are Arms with Tactical Mastery you should be able to change to BattleStance and keep enough Rage to immediately inflict a Mocking Blow which should hard Taunt for a full 6 seconds as well (and then switch back to Defensive stance).

Sunder Armor should also generate hight Threat but so far I have only used it on bosses.

Which of the above have you tried?

What level is your group?

[Andreauk]

I am level 13.. I stay in def stance and use taunt as soon as they go for one of the alts - I don't have revenge yet and use sunder and heroic strike but rage gain is so slow It's aoe threat that's an issue - some mobs can't be sheeped

I also think the wands are an issue as they have greater wands I crafted, and they pull threat like noones business.

Funny thing is in my Lock team the voidwalkers can hold threat better than my Warrior.. they just couldn't take all the damage without heals.

Maybe I need to go Locks and take the Priest out the trinity to go with them.

[nodoze]

I am level 13.. I stay in def stance and use taunt as soon as they go for one of the alts - I don't have revenge yet and use sunder and heroic strike but rage gain is so slow It's aoe threat that's an issue - some mobs can't be sheeped

I also think the wands are an issue as they have greater wands I crafted, and they pull threat like noones business.

Funny thing is in my Lock team the voidwalkers can hold threat better than my Warrior.. they just couldn't take all the damage without heals.

Maybe I need to go Locks and take the Priest out the trinity to go with them.

Maybe someone else who specializes and/or mains a Warrior can give some guidance (I main a Paladin). In the meantime I will give you what thoughts I have.

If you are doing any AoE damage from your mages I would stop it for now and try to focus fire single target DPS and practice having your Warrior hold aggro. It should get better at level 14 with Revenge and at 16 you get Mocking Blow for important fights.

At your current level a Warrior should be able to keep aggro on at least 1 mob though maybe you just need some more levels. It may not be what others recommend but this is what I am doing on my lead warrior that I want to push Threat on:

https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...rrior/30205001

With the above build my Heroic Strike is only 12 Rage instead of 15 which lets me do more Threat with less Rage.
Once you hit 14 and get Revenge it should further help with Rage some as it is only 5 Rage (when available);
With Tactical Mastery I can use different stances and abilities and keep up-to 25 Rage when I do that.
With Anger Management my Rage decays slower which is helpful to keep rage up.

When you engage one or more strong Mobs I recommend you try something like the following:

• Warrior start in Battle Stance & Charge for +9 Rage (your ranged group should likely stay back so your Warrior gets body pull aggro on any/all mobs);
• Warrior pop BloodRage (should now be 19+ Rage with 10 more Rage coming over 10 seconds);
• If multiple Mobs Thunder Clap (-20 Rage should take close to 0 Rage) & then Shift to Defensive Stance;
• If single Mob Heroic Strike at least once (-12 Rage each) & then shift to Defensive stance
• Once in Defensive Stance the Warrior does the following on the main target (while you start DPS on the main target from Mages):
  
• Auto-Attack;
  
• Revenge when available;
  
• Taunting if/as needed.
  
• If there are multiple mobs to kill after the current one dies just try to do the above (basically only Revenge and Auto-Attack) to build some rage for the next targets while the Mages DPS the current target. When the current target dies you should be able to Heroic Strike the next target to solidify Aggro and then let the mages start. Once you are down to the last mob then just Heroic Strike when you can (assuming Revenge is not available as you always Revenge instead of Heroic Strike if Revenge is up).
  
• On big fights (like bosses) if you lose aggro and Taunt is down then shift to Battle Stance & give a Mocking Blow to lock down aggro then shift back to Defensive stance. You may need to slow your Mage DPS some if that keeps happening.

Please try the above and let us know if that helps.

If the above works for you, once you feel like you have strong control of Aggro on single Target mobs then, after your Warrior Thunder Claps, try mixing in some Arcane Explosion AoEs from your Mages (only after you have maxed your Arcane Subtlety talents) and see how that goes.

[Andreauk]

Thanks.. I don't even have any aoe at this time. Have decided to take the priest from trinity and put with locks - I am lucky there is only a 1 lvl difference.

Edit: Did a full run of rfc with Locks x4 and priest heals. The voidys can take more punishment than my war tank anyday.