Leveling in 7.3.5

[MiRai]

Do you think these 60+ dungeons are even doable for a group in greens and quest blues? Or are they tuned for the assumption that everyone is running twinks in full heirlooms?

There were several dungeons that I couldn't complete (listed in my prior post) with a 4/5 melee team in heirlooms (+ enchants), but I'm doing one final pass of the dungeons with two different teams to see if I can do them all (as well as record and present what I've done). I fear that, even if I can, some of these dungeons are going to require a lot of work to complete, and like you said, they will be incredibly unforgiving to any new player.

Or did they just do this so people can't level in dungeons anymore, and are tempted to buy the level boosts?

That's what it felt like to begin with, but then they increased the experience rewarded for dungeons, which somewhat nullified that thought, although I'm not exactly sure what they increased experience for (mob, boss, main objective, bonus objective, LFD bonus, etc.).

Because a large part of the player base were in tears over how easy it was and had become an absolute joke tbf.

I completely understood this statement from those who didn't like it, and, on a scale from 1 to 10, pre-7.3.5 dungeons were maybe at a 2 or 3. Unfortunately, now more than some of them are 8 or 9, and sometimes the trash is more lethal than some of the bosses found in the same dungeon. It all feels awkward and unbalanced, and while the dungeons feel as if they're relevant, the reward for completing them is certainly not, and I wish Blizzard would do a second pass on these health numbers rather than just sit in silence as if the first percentage they chose was 100% correct.

Honestly, I feel bad for anyone (solo players and multiboxers alike) without heirlooms (or any appropriate-level rare/epic gear) at this point, because fights are much longer than before and high DPS is desired more than ever, and I could easily see those players being kicked more often for not "pulling their weight" in the party.

[DualZilla]

As for what increased exp wise I think it was just the bonus experience for queuing randoms as that is all I noticed increase after they slashed exp to 1/10 (10%) when a character is in the group that has outleveled the current content

Dungeons get tricky exp wise if not using the random queue...basically if anyone in the group...when entering a dungeon by foot is outside the new level ranges...the penalty kicks in...

so 15-60, 61-79, 80-89, 90-100 groupings are now subject to penalty exp gain....even if the mobs are still green to say a 65 and everyone else is 59 on the 15-60 dungeons...everyone gets penalized

Exp tapers off quickly too each level over max even if the group is all the same level...so max exp may be at lvl 60 and by 61 -65 it drops by 20% each level(not sure exact % offhand but it was quickly not worth the time)

Dungeons were probably too easy before but ahead of forcing everyone to level grind for Heritage Transmog on the new races and the Vanilla servers planned...they went overboard making stuff harder

98-110 goes much faster in legion just doing the 6 Invasions quests every so often grouped with a 110

90-98 went decently in draenor doing rares and chests/treasures as opposed to dungeons on Frostfire and Gorgrond

Some old dungeons feel tougher than legion Mythic now at the correct level (110 mythic + still tougher due to some affixes and bugs) ... even in all heirlooms

Ghostlands still are fastest exp questing in 1-60 but last for only 5-10 levels worth of exp

[Pocahuntess]

It looks like the completion XP, for Ramparts at least, has had a stealth nerf. I'm only getting a fraction of what I was getting last week when I did some grinding with it using LFD.

[Peri Helion]

Confirmed - it looks like based on the stickied thread in General Discussion on the Bliz forums stealth nerf hit Tuesday. I would guess that Stockades and Ramparts had bonus completion xp cut to 20% (i.e reduced by 80%) based on my runs through them. You will get about a 1/6th of a level for a complete run now.

Just for laughs I boosted two grandfathered RAF monks in full heirlooms and enlightenment through stockades and only got about 75% of a level. Two non RAF, non monk, Heirloom guys who were also boosted through stockades only got about 17%.

And the beat”down” goes on!

[SDBoxer]

Prior to this change, people who found the dungeons or overland zones too easy had an option. They could lock their level and run dungeons that were red to them. They could lock their level and run higher level zones full of monsters that were red to them. They had choices.

So did people like me – who play a self-found style without heirlooms, who only play solo or with a friend or two, or who are simply less skilled or have poorer reflexes. If a dungeon was too hard, we could wait a level or two and try again later. We could run dungeons that were green or even grey to us if we wanted to. We had choices.

Now, no one has any choices. Every dungeon you run will be your level, and will be full of mobs your level, but with massive HP pools. If a dungeon is too hard for you to complete, there’s nothing you can do about it. If you gain a few levels, so will that dungeon – and the mobs will be even harder when you return. And if your gear didn’t improve as you leveled, you’ll be even further behind than before.

These changes took away choice – and I don’t understand why Blizzard thought that was a winning idea.

[Ritley]

I think scaling is a great idea. The way it was implemented is what stinks. You no longer out level a questing area before you're even halfway through it and are forced to travel (slowly before you hit 70 might I add) somewhere else which is a very nice and welcome change. The added difficulty in dungeons is... a headscratcher.

You can still out level dungeons and go back to them when they are green/grey it just takes longer to do so now. Dungeon running, even as a solo character queuing with the LFD tool, is painful. If you're lucky enough to get into a group of all heirloomed up toons it can be tolerable but it's still slow even then. Running a full team yourself is quite the chore in most dungeons. Trying to do them without heirlooms has got to be mind numbing and incredibly over-tuned. 1-60 is a tedious slog at best these days.

[Peri Helion]

Watched the Developer Q&A - next to last question was about leveling alts, and if BfA would be more alt friendly.

I was happy they actually took the question, and do agree with much of what he said - Legion and BfA are alt friendly (specifically around account wide unlocks). And his sentiment was that if you are leveling an alt because you have reached a plateau on your main, they dont want to make leveling an alt too easy otherwise you are right back in the same position again.

And he said - and I quote "if you are looking to level your 17th alt I dont really care". Poor choice of words as it denigrates a specific category of players that tend to have greater game longevity - the "completionist" type players that wants to try everything.

I posted on the WoW forums https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761928053

Just wanted to share with this community if you didnt see the Q&A

[Jabberie]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/239064071?t=01h10m07s

The actual quote is a little different I have to say......

If the main thing that you are looking for is, I'm just looking for a 17th alt that I can use to farm the horseman mount, that's less of what we're trying to prioritize or facilitate when it comes to alt friendliness. So understandable if THAT part of it can feel worse but..... sorry.

[Ritley]

I think the sentiment is the same either way.

Why does it matter what # alt it is? And why does it matter what I want to use the alt for? Why does that have any bearing on how they approach how alts level and catch up?

If it sucks, it sucks. Doesn't matter if it's the third time through or thirteenth.

They made it better for Legion specifically over time (it was horrendous at first with AK and legendaries), but they made it worse for... the entire rest of the game.

[Jabberie]

I don't believe the sentiment is the same at all. While there is lots of ways to play the game, I guess this is confirmation that at least this type is not going to be made easy. I would imagine the reason is the same as every weekly cap to currency or time gate to a profession, or anything that slows you down, to stop it becoming "mandatory".