Prot paladins - assume the position

[Ughmahedhurtz]

PVE-related thoughts below; if you're PVP-focused, you can skip this post.

General question: why exactly is it wrong to clear a dungeon with 5x tanks? Who is being materially injured, so badly that they need a safe space and emotional counseling because we did something people said we couldn't do?

If people who love the x5 tank setup (especially Protection Paladins) are totally honest here, don't you think that it's crazy how much self healing tanks can currently do - and even to each other!?? So much so that an actual healer class would be detrimental to the setup?

I can't speak of pvp, but yes I think it's crazy how things are at the moment.

If my 5x tanks have difficulty surviving (i.e. regularly losing one or two of them to WMD mechanics) on non-pure-melee bosses without a dedicated healer unless I significantly outgear the instance and/or use long-cooldown abilities, what detriment exactly is bringing a healer going to subject them to? Not sure if you've actually played with a healer, but I have with a friend and bringing him along completely trivialized Serpentrix which was driving me crazy trying to complete it as 5x paladins. That evidence would seem to contradict your assertion.

i dont think its right that you can clear highlvl/mythics content with just 5 tanks. To me it feels that something is wrong when it actually works to just bring 5 tanks. But i have to admit that i was thinking about making a 5pallytank team myself lol =D

Well, take that to its logical conclusion: if your assertion is that you shouldn't be able to do this with just 5 tanks, then you shouldn't be able to do it with 5x hunters, or 5x of any class, or any non-trinity team. See how this is a slippery slope? Where does it end? How much do people dislike being railroaded down a very narrow path that punishes you for deviating from the orthodoxy?

Ultimately, the question for me is, is the capability of 5-tank groups (paladins in particular) so completely egregiously broken that it breaks the game for everyone else and causes significant numbers of people to just give up in frustration? I have yet to see any evidence of that. Hell, I have yet to talk to ANYONE that plays a prot paladin that isn't happy with the character and enjoys logging in to play it, and will stay subscribed because it's fun to play.

And that is my ultimate question: if people are having fun playing the game as it is, why would you purposely make it less fun for some people because their playstyle offends your individual sense of universal equilibrium? Doesn't seem like a winner to me; sounds more like kow-towing to the tyranny of the squeaky wheel.

[Andreauk]

PVE-related thoughts below; if you're PVP-focused, you can skip this post.

General question: why exactly is it wrong to clear a dungeon with 5x tanks? Who is being materially injured, so badly that they need a safe space and emotional counseling because we did something people said we couldn't do?


If my 5x tanks have difficulty surviving (i.e. regularly losing one or two of them to WMD mechanics) on non-pure-melee bosses without a dedicated healer unless I significantly outgear the instance and/or use long-cooldown abilities, what detriment exactly is bringing a healer going to subject them to? Not sure if you've actually played with a healer, but I have with a friend and bringing him along completely trivialized Serpentrix which was driving me crazy trying to complete it as 5x paladins. That evidence would seem to contradict your assertion.

And that is my ultimate question: if people are having fun playing the game as it is, why would you purposely make it less fun for some people because their playstyle offends your individual sense of universal equilibrium? Doesn't seem like a winner to me; sounds more like kow-towing to the tyranny of the squeaky wheel.

My point was not needing a healer at all is crazy.. using 5 of the same spec/class isn't what the game is designed for, and people shouldn't cry or be surprised when they nerf it to the ground. The game isn't balanced around/for boxers at all. Tanks healing each other for full hp is just plain stupid.. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf or remove that at some point.
As for your healer friend that's no longer total boxing is it? That's having help from someone with a hell of a lot more control over the healer than you would have.

I don't have an issue with peoples class/team boxing choices.. I tried 5 prots myself (wasn't for me).. what I am saying is that if it wasn't for the cheesy mechanics of certain abilities (hand of the protector I'm looking at you) they wouldn't be half as viable, and Prot Pala boxers can't seriously be expecting them to buff/not nerf that cheesyness.

[davidmage]

5 Protection paladins is by no way an overpowered bunch of steamrollers which can crush anything and "cheeze" any mechanic due to the self heal. When working to the higher m+ and affixes one will have to utilize all abilities and heals perfectly to manage.

What I feel in the new legion encounters is that most AoE and encounter damage which affects the party can be avoided if you just do it right. Because of that healers now can't heal as much as in previous expansions. I guess the plan is that if dps stand in shit they die, and a healer can't compensate by being uberskilled and carrying the party, and I like this.

This has however led to that often a healer is not even needed, because it is possible to survive fine if you avoid stuff. And with 4 dps and a tank which also does dps, bosses just die fast. (which had proved to be a very good setup)

So it's not 5 paladins (or 5 tanks in general) which is unbalanced. Hell I'm overgearing mythics by now, but that doesnt mean I can stand in Serpentrix shit and just heal through it.

My 5 hunters for example have killed some mythic+ bosses around 30 seconds, not even giving time for mechanics to kick in. And with some fine legendaries, hunter can heal for 70% of total health with every FD, + other cools. I bet many classes have nice stuff, I can't have been extremely lucky choosing the 2 most OP classes/specs in legion. And I know for a fact that many classes dps the shit out of BM hunter.

So it's no surprise to see the 4dps 1 tank groups performing well, because probably any class can crush it and have their own way of surviving without needing a healer. Enough skill and gear, most classes will kill the boss before dying from encounter AoE, regardless if you are prot-pala-dps-tank or not.

Fair point. That said, if you gear up your DPS enough, you can blow things up so fast that mechanics cease to be a major hindrance. I'm pretty sure you could almost run anything through 5-man mythics after gearing up in heroic/mythic raids.