Prot paladins - assume the position

[Wubsie]

I've not done instanced PVP this expansion since there is no point, but from what I gather from that thread is that tank specs are not really in a great spot when PVP stat templates are active, but play as if being higher level than every non-tank in WPVP. The latter part I can concur with. Don't know if it's the same in PVP, but atleast in PVE Prot Pally healing does seem fairly silly. I'm boosting a 104 Paladin with 4x 110 Frost DKs and I really do not need a healer, since Hand of The Protector seems to be working much better than the tooltip would have you believe, essentially letting me get a full health reset on a toon every 10 seconds.

I do not like the approach they've taken for tanks in PVP overall. They're essentially trying to make tanks work like DPS specs, losing the point of being a tank in the first place. Their role in PVP, in my humble opinion, should be to act as FCs, capture point guards and overall annoy the hell out of the opposing team with utility talents while being able to push in fairly aggressively without really worrying about dying as much as a DPS. In arena I always thought they should similarly try to outlast the opposition by forcing them to play defensive, constant aggression due to not having to worry about damage as much.

This was also in the thread and I found it interesting:

Would you look into getting PVP templates working in world PVP?

This is something we could theoretically do, we just disagree that it's the correct choice for world PvP. Inherent imbalances are part of what makes world PvP fun. Speaking personally, some of my best memories of world PvP have come from getting a bunch of friends together to take down 1 or 2 enemy players that significantly outgear us, or getting my revenge on someone that ganked me earlier by catching them off-guard in the middle of a world quest.

There's obviously going to be some gray area there - there's a point where it stops being world PvP and instead just becomes griefing, and not everyone is going to agree on exactly where that point is. Generally speaking, however, unfairness - both taking advantage of it, as well as overcoming it - is part of the appeal of world PvP.

I agree that part of the fun of WPVP is that it is random in nature. You might face any number of enemies in any kind of gear and any kind of skill level. Mobs, toys and engineering items, guards, etcetc all add to the mix to create an endless number of possible scenarios you might find yourself in. However, those elements are created naturally by players playing the game. When all attempts at balancing PVP in this expansion rely on those stat templates, simply choosing to leave them out of the equation seems like a piss poor attempt to add an element of chaos, when the chaotic elements people actually enjoy (ie: NOT just the gear difference and some class being overtuned without a template deciding everything) would present themselves regardless. I honestly do not see the point of leaving the only controlling element out of the equation to create the mess that is Legion WPVP. I can honestly say that never before in my play time has damage been so far out of control.

i dont think its right that you can clear highlvl/mythics content with just 5 tanks. To me it feels that something is wrong when it actually works to just bring 5 tanks. But i have to admit that i was thinking about making a 5pallytank team myself lol =D

The problem really is not that it works. The problem is that it works better than bringing traditional setups. I was watching a dungeon event Blizzard held a few days ago. M+ 10 with a few extra additional mechanics to make it harder and without fail the team that ran 4x DPS 1x Tank was more effective in clearing the content. That to me means there is something fundamentally wrong.