Operating Systems: My problems, my solution

[Thedonsquad]

I built this new machine that is not quite top of the line but close to it and along the way reaffirmed my reluctantness to upgrade to the newest windows product before SP2 is out. I'm putting this in hardware subforum because it has more to do with hardware compatibility with software than the software itself.

System:

Giga-Byte GA-EX38T-DQ6 Mobo
Quad Core Extreme Q6850
4 GB of Crucial 1066 DDRII RAM
4x 160GB SATAII 3GB/s HDD's
2x Phillips DVD-RW SATAII's
2x Palit 9600GT's

Initially I installed Vista 64 Ultimate SP1 and had been in the installed OS for all of about 5 min before I encountered my first BSOD (IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR EQUAL). Finished installing all of the correct drivers through a slew of BSOD's and got it semi stable enough to run prime95 for a few iterations, and without fail it would kick out due to rounding problems.

I then proceeded to take out 1GB of ram and install Vista 32 Ultimate and was completely stable untill I ran anything DirectX and would get either IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL or MEMORY MANAGEMENT errors on my BSOD's.

I then spent the next few days testing each and every peice of hardware in my system to see if any component was defective, nothing was. Despite many posts on forums and blogs all over the internet claiming these BSOD's were attributed to hardware failure, I did not believe this was possible givin the testing. So I went back to Vista 64 and installed with bare minimum components attached to the system and while it was more stable setting up the drivers for everything, the moment I installed and activated several things the BSOD's were back in full force.

After all my headaches with Vista i decided it was time to step back to XP and give it a shot as it is a more proven OS. My initial install of XP x64 Rufus edition (all the pretty crap of vista on a XP install) went bad, similar problems to Vista. So, before I went to XP 32, I tried installing with minimal installed components and it went flawlessly. Next, I installed the drivers and began piece by piece putting everything back into the computer. Not one problem.

The message of this story for those of you building your computers, just because everything you buy is Vista certified definatly does not mean that the combination works correctly with Vista. Stick with tried and true software, and exhaust all software possibilitys before you RMA your hardware.

Spend the time when you design your system to make sure all the parts are compatible with each other,especially RAM and Mobo's

¬Cheers!

(oh and thanks Aelli for telling me to just go back to XP 64, i would have been fiddling with vista for months)

[zanthor]

I'm curious, was the system OC'd when you were having all these problems or setup at stock?

[Thedonsquad]

was setup at stock, 3.0GHz on 1333MHz FSB during all of the installs.

I overclocked once I got it stable and torture tested for 24 hours via prime95 for burn in. (not one error) I did underclock the memory from 1066 to 800 in the end, but that was not a system stability issue, i just wanted the case temp a bit cooler, (besides it seemed more logical to have a 2.0 multiplier on the memory than a 2.6)

[Sarduci]

You BSOD points to faulty drivers. If you could provide the full error message that you were getting I could point you in the correct direction.

Vista uses a new technique for memory allocation for programs. It loads things into random portions of memory instead of XP, 2003, 2000, etc of using static areas of memory. More than likely you have faulty or under-volted RAM. The more RAM you have the larger the voltage drop over all the memory. This is called VDROOP by the "enthusiast" hardware community. If your memory was speced for 1.8v and your system clocked it via auto-detect (ie. SPD on chip) at 1.7 and your vdroop was putting it at 1.63 then you could have been way under spec.

Other than your video card, I have the DDR2 version of that motherboard. If you setup the hardware correctly I can say that there are no major issues with the drivers for that family of board. People are running that air cooled at about a 50% OC, water cooled at a 75% OC.

Vista is far less forgiving of poor memory setups than XP was. I'd expect nothing less out of a more advanced OS.

http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=126 - What vdroop is.

[EvoX]

You BSOD points to faulty drivers. If you could provide the full error message that you were getting I could point you in the correct direction.

Vista uses a new technique for memory allocation for programs. It loads things into random portions of memory instead of XP, 2003, 2000, etc of using static areas of memory. More than likely you have faulty or under-volted RAM. The more RAM you have the larger the voltage drop over all the memory. This is called VDROOP by the "enthusiast" hardware community. If your memory was speced for 1.8v and your system clocked it via auto-detect (ie. SPD on chip) at 1.7 and your vdroop was putting it at 1.63 then you could have been way under spec.

Other than your video card, I have the DDR2 version of that motherboard. If you setup the hardware correctly I can say that there are no major issues with the drivers for that family of board. People are running that air cooled at about a 50% OC, water cooled at a 75% OC.

Vista is far less forgiving of poor memory setups than XP was. I'd expect nothing less out of a more advanced OS.

http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=126 - What vdroop is.



In my opinion, the statements I highlighted in red are somewhat conflicting. From the description I don't believe it to be a driver issue, but lean more toward your suggestion of a ram/memory voltage problem. I dealt with a PC that was giving the same BSOD on a daily basis, and would occasionally reference what appeared to be one of the files of my video card drivers. The PC in question had ran without issue for months prior to the problem. I tried various video card driver versions, along with many other hardware driver updates to no avail. After trying a different video card I continued getting the same BSOD. Just out of curiosity, I pulled 1 of the 2 ram modules, and the PC ran without a single BSOD for a week of heavy use/gaming. I ordered a new stick of RAM to replace the one I'd pulled, and its been working without issue for over 4 months now.

[Shigan5]

Agreed. Thats a memory issue with faulty drivers, and IMO vista does better with memory than anything else out there. EX:

Before my recent upgrade i had a 256mb 8600gt. not alot of vram, and i had 2gb of system memory, whatever wasnt being used of that 2gb vista would give to the component that needed it most, wether it was my soundcard or my vid card, so if i was doing graphic intensive stuff, my vid card would register as having a gb of ram, but if i was in FL studio or reason it would register my soundcards onboard as having more.

But back to the problem, i smell bad drivers, and they stink. And for those who don't know, i DO NOT RECCOMEND going back to xp for security reasons, after xp sp3 theyre stopiing all xp related work. XP will be unpurchasable at the beginning of june.

[Thedonsquad]

Thanks, I'll remember that if i ever need to ramp back to xp... I refuse to go back to vista x64 till the language packs are done properly and SP2 is out. (April 9th is expected for language packs atm) Right now I've got my memory forced to cas 5 with 1.85v power to them, the only reason i said the ex38T vs the ex38(which is the one i have) is i've noticed that giga-byte does not even have the ex38 DDRII on the product support list, but the ex38t drivers work flawlessly for it and the bios update F2 is compatible with both DDR2 and DDR3 as well as a bit better about auto selecting voltages (still not perfect)

My memory on SPD recognized at 1.7v with 5-7-7-18 when it should have been 1.8 with 5-5-5-15, the SPD standards need to update to include actually manufacturer specs not some junky IEEE standard.

[Bollwerk]

I didn't read through all the replies, but I have one comment to add:

There is a bug in Vista (not sure if it's unique to x64 or not) that makes it blue screen if you try to use more than 2GB of RAM while installing or using the OS. There is a patch for this bug through Windows Update, so once the patch is installed, you can put the extra RAM back in. I don't recall the exact name of the patch, but if you search Microsoft's support site, you will find references to the bug. I believe it was related to motherboards with Nvidia chipsets.

Bottom line though - Start with 2GB RAM (or less), Install Vista, update all patches, install extra RAM.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Two comments:

1) The Storport.sys driver (referenced in that BSOD on systems with >3GB RAM) only affects RAID or SCSI controllers, and not even all of those. WinDbg can read the module list from a memory dump and tell you if that driver is even loaded.

2) My giga-byte x38-DS4 board has been giving me fits with a pair of HyperX RAM lately. I got frustrated with the lack of response from the Kingston folks so I figured I'd go do one last check on the settings in the Motherboard Intelligent Tweaker settings. I compared the multiplier, voltage and standard timings to the specs and it was all good. What was NOT kosher was the advanced timings. Specifically, the Refresh to ACT Delay was defaulting to 42, where the module datasheet references 105. Soon as I changed that setting, BAM, no more issues. Ran all night last night with nary a hitch where it would reliably fail within 20 minutes on Prime95. I'm a pretty happy camper and quite a bit more wary from here on out of motherboard manufacturers' ability to properly configure my RAM for me. I'd suggest, since you have a mobo that'll allow you to tweak that stuff, that you go peek at the Crucial site and pull the datasheet for your specific RAM and see if it all matches.

Best of luck!