Pally getting wtfown'd in heroics

[elo]

Well naturally armory is not showing my character data so I'll try and post what I remember of it. Name is Elothyn on Blackhand if it starts working for anyone.

Anyhow, so I'm going through the maintankadin guides (also down atm) and trying to get geared up but still fairly frightened at my squishiness. From what I recall last night I've got something about like the following

10,000 HP
494 def
11% dodge
16% parry
16% block
just north of 12,000 armor

and the first 2 mobs in Sethek just tear me apart, seriously little pally giblets all over the place. I've gotten a good percentage of the stuff from the maintankadin site but am just not real confident that it'll turn this tide. For one I think I /may/ be able to make it to 11k hp with all the echants and gems I can get, but anything beyond that I just don't see getting to pre-kara gear. Am I at least close to a turning point with my gear? My perspective is admittedly a bit off because I've never seriously tanked and my pally actually has the opposite problem in normal mode (doesn't get hurt, doesn't need heals, therefore no mana). Am I going to have to be carried through a few kara runs to get the base gear I'll need to do the 'roics? I've got to think there's a way to get ready for kara without going to kara because at somepoint no one had been, amirite?

Thanks for any thoughts, or if someone can point me to their armory page that shows a good pre-raid gear set.

[Anozireth]

With those stats for a pally tank it's going to be very rough. I would say around 11.5-12k hp is baseline for heroics, you can make it in pre-kara gear if you do it right. If every item is a blue or better tanking specific item, you should be ok. If you're going into heroics with half a dozen greens, you're going to get destroyed. Gem and enchant for stamina as much as you can. Assuming armory is up to date, it doesn't look like there's any major problems with your spec. Those shoulders need to go, though there's really only one option (shoulder of the bold), and who wants to run SL that much. Try to get the Aldor revered chest or the one from the fire boss in mechanar, and put +150 hp on it. Righteous gear is generally pretty bad. Also the timewarden's legs with all +12 stam gems from keepers of time revered rep will net you close to 500 hp alone, they're by far the best blue tank legs. Shield could use a stam enchant (or go for the Gladiator's shield too, a little resilience is ok). All in all, with just a few items being replaced and adding a couple enchants, I think you could add another 1000 hp without too much trouble.

Also, Sethekk halls is probably not a good heroic to start with. Some of the two-pulls in there (I think the raven lords?) hit insanely hard if you have to tank both. Sp or botanica, or mech are probably some of the easiest IMO.

You can have a look at my pally tank for inspiration, though his gear is a bit beyond entry level at this point.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...er&n=Anozireth

[elo]

Thanks guys that helps a lot. Fur is totally right on my healing, my resto shammy is just at like 950. Easy to overlook because I blow through normal instances so easy, haven't put any work/enchants into her yet though. Maybe I'll swap my priest (+1600 healing) in while I get the pally geared. Kinda been taking pride in my crew getting their own gear without help though.

Ano, yes your pally is indeed inspiring. You've got kings on currently in the armory but still very nice stats! I'm gathering mats for those bracers now. The way my guild walks through Kara these days I should probably just bite the bullet and spend a few 4 hour sessions with them but just back to the pride thing. I think you've also inspired me to go engineering on my pally, those goggles ROCK! Yeah my shoulders are meh but like you said it's hard to get better at this point.

Thanks again!

[Nixi]

The first heroic I tried was slave pens. The 3 pull of bogstalks wtfpwned me and I didn't even try another heroic for about a week. When I went back into heroics I had around:

11,000 HP
478 def
13% dodge
15% parry
13% block
11 resilience
12,000 Ac

Truth be told my pally gear didn't change at all. I just re-read Fur's threads on heroics and he said, "once you get the heroic healing down" it all became clear: You HAVE to work on your healing. My priest has around +1500 healing now and I simply spam greater heal on my paladin on each and every pull. I don't crowd control in the heroics i'm running now. I can clear Slave Pens and Mech, and i've managed to down 2 bosses in ramps (last boss i got to 20% and decided to craft some FR resist but haven't had a chance to try him again) and I made it to The Tender guy in Bot before the instance bugged out on me and the trash all respawned.

I'm feeling pretty confident running heroics with my priest and paladin geared as they are. Pally is in all level 70 blues, but I spoiled my priest with full mooncloth and whitemend. Everyone has blue gems.

Of the instances I run I don't one-shot them by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm making fewer mistakes and there are only 2 or 3 pulls in each instance that are really just 'gear checks' (if you're not using CC), the rest of my wipes are from mistakes. I should start CC'ing but it hurts my pallys pride. 8)

[Kel]

Paladin gear wise:
Get enchants on stuff, Heavy Knothide Armour kits would be +200-300 hp (Chest, Hands and maybe Shoulders), work on your Keeper's of Time rep for the head enchant (not sure which is easier to box), how have you managed to only be neutral? The quests get you up to mid way through honoured. +12 Stam on shield, mats aren't terribly expensive.
Go to Botanica for the Spaulders of Righteousness or I think SL for Shoulders of the Bold.
Jadeskull Breastblate (Mech) is possible better than the Righteous one (I was recommended that as an upgrade by a tankadin friend).
There's a ring which you could upgrade your Ring of the Silver Hand with from a group quest in SMV, starts with 'Breaching the Path' and ends with killing some elite giants.

For your resto Shammy:
I won't suggest many specific bits as having never geared up a shaman I don't know all that much about drops for them.
Upgrade any items that are still dmg/heal (unless you particularly need them for stam) and possibly any which have spirit on them (aslong as you don't drop much +heal for it).
The new pvp blues might be worth looking into, I found a couple of bits that were an upgrade for my priest.
Run some LC instrances (Shadow Labs for your paladins shoulders :P) to get revered and buy the LC Prayer Book to replace the green.
If you can do BM try and get the healing bracers that drop from Aeonus.
Get revered with HH for the Ring of Convalesence and +Healing helm enchant.
Get a Silver Spell Thread on your Shamans Pants (either current or the pvp blue ones).
Look at getting some other cheap enchants, e.g. mp5 on chest and bracers, magisters armour kit (+3mp5) for wherever it will go which doesn't have a better enchant available.
Get a new weapon, Essence Focuser off the AH, Lightsworn Hammer from Kargath in SH (whilst working on Rep) or the nice new mace that drops in MgT.

Anyway, just some suggestions for how to improve your gear. Heroics are a definate step up healing wise, particularly if you have no CC.

[elo]

Good stuff guys. Yeah I haven't worried about my shaman gear because I mow through instances so fast it hasn't really drawn my attention but you're totally right. I don't have enchant 1 on them, and was really waiting until I got them better gear etc. The healing hasn't been an issue because I seemed to have crossed this threshold with my pally where she just doesn't need heals, to the extent that my Resto just DPS's all the way through SLabs. I'm working LC rep now for that healing book and to get the Elementals the exalted mace. I've also been stock piling (sold some for flying mounts) the stuff for Aldor/Scryer rep. I haven't even gone all the way through Durnholde yet (just an annoying place to me), but I'm going to get on that as I want to have my own Kara keys. I'm also working Sha'tar rep to get the shield and healing mace for my pally/resto respectively. Good point on the HH rep though (ugh more rep) I've had that so long on my priest I totally forgot about it w.r.t to my resto. I think I'm also going to take the dive and run at least one of my toons into kara this Sunday. My guild runs 3 groups of alts through every week so should be pretty easy to get some gear (maybe I can take a spot in all 3? ).

Thanks again!

[Los]

oe good read guys, added to favorites, and anozireth, never change to anything else then prot gear, i need your gear as an example :P

[Anozireth]

oe good read guys, added to favorites, and anozireth, never change to anything else then prot gear, i need your gear as an example :P

Well you're in luck since I don't think I've logged on that toon for more than 10 minutes since I started boxing.

[zanthor]

10,000 HP
494 def
11% dodge
16% parry
16% block
just north of 12,000 armor

Dodge block and parry are livable for heroics, your HP is way low and your armor seems low as well... though I'm not sure what my armor is on my pally... and my warrior isn't a good comparison since he's T5 ready for T6.

I'm a huge fan of fully enchanted/gemmed, make sure you gem everything you can for +stam, anything else is a waste... see if you can't get to 12k hp unbuffed and you should be a lot easier to keep alive. Also a talent build be helpful... of course can get that off armory, if armory didn't suck so bad .

[elo]

OK, actual stats off of armory now

Health: 10,007
Armor: 11560
Def: 495
Dodge: 13.92%
Parry: 16.11%
Block: 16.25%

Talent build is here

Summary Details Reset
Protection
Redoubt Rank 5
Toughness Rank 5
Blessing of Kings Rank 1
Improved Righteous Fury Rank 3
Shield Specialization Rank 3
Anticipation Rank 5
Improved Hammer of Justice Rank 3
Improved Concentration Aura Rank 3
Blessing of Sanctuary Rank 1
Sacred Duty Rank 2
One-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 2
Improved Holy Shield Rank 2
Holy Shield Rank 1
Ardent Defender Rank 2
Combat Expertise Rank 5
Avenger's Shield Rank 1
Protection Total: 44
Retribution
Benediction Rank 5
Improved Judgement Rank 2
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 3
Deflection Rank 4
Vindication Rank 3
Retribution Total: 17
Total
Total Points Spent: 61
Level Required: 70


Yeah I need to ditch Conc Aura and max out Deflection and Ardent Defender, just bad decisions made along the way.

The really confusing part is just the gap between regular and heroic. On regular slabs I heal against almost all trash with earth shield alone. But either way I'm working the gear up. The things I don't have gemmed/chanted are just because I'm building up mats/etc. and don't really need them until I start trying heroics again. The whole health vs. mitigation thing I struggle with to. From the gems I picked you'll see that I err'd on the side of mitigation, which is why I think the regular instances have become such a joke.