Ugh @ New AV

[Mosg2]

Sigh. Even less honor per hour for Horde now on my Battlegroup. Instead of 11 minute losses for ~350-400 honor it's now 11 minute losses for ~150-200. I guess I should be happy that I finished almost all of the honor grind prior to 2.4.

[thinus]

And now you can look forward to getting steamrolled by premades all day long during AV weekend as well. What fun.

[marvein]

wtf? why is it so much less now? is it because of an actual change or just because horde are sucking more post 2.4?

[marvein]

Sigh. Even less honor per hour for Horde now on my Battlegroup. Instead of 11 minute losses for ~350-400 honor it's now 11 minute losses for ~150-200. I guess I should be happy that I finished almost all of the honor grind prior to 2.4.

Are you sure its less? Remember the old system estimated honor and would more-often-then-not fuck up the calculation, so you'd get less than you thought the next day.

Now its instant honor, so what you see is what you get.

good point, I have a screenshot of being 1 (as in 1 single point) of honor short of an item I wanted when the day before the estimated honor was nearly 1k higher than I should have needed.

[Jaws5]

Are you saying since the Horde starting point is moved back we only get 1 or 2 bunkers before loss or it takes forever to kill Bal

[Mosg2]

As I suspected before 2.4 hit, there are two ways that games go on my Battlegroup now:

1. Horde turtle at IB and force a 30 minute win where we can usually snag ~400 honor to the Alliance's 0-150 or so.

2. Horde doesn't turtle and Alliance steamrolls to Drek in the EXACT same f'ing time it took them pre-2.4 but we can BARELY get SP under control before they start on Drek. That means we're losing North and South bunker cap honor plus many times SH and IW bunker cap honor because they can push to Drek so fast.

All of this stems from the fact that Alliance are forced to go in one path from our lieutenant to TP to IB and then straight to RH. Our archers are a joke and they don't have 4 aggro elite NPC's standing right next to the GY that prevent them from capping it. So, while 1 or 2 Alliance at AS can hold off a full group of Horde from capping, it takes 10-15 minimum at the RH to prevent Alliance from capping it... And our East and West towers are ticking down as they do it, too.

What makes me sick is knowing that Blizz did this so that you couldn't have 10 minute games anymore. My guess is that they didn't want AV games to take 1/3 the amount of time that an AB takes and give 3 times the honor, so they tried to force Horde to play D. It's disgusting.

After getting 7 toons kitted in full S1/Vindicator's, I don't think I'd ever have the patience to do this again on a single other toon. Ever.

Edit: Just hit the magic post number I'm going to have a beer to celebrate. BRB.

[thinus]

1. Horde turtle at IB and force a 30 minute win where we can usually snag ~400 honor to the Alliance's 0-150 or so.

In my battlegroup we did this pre 2.4 anyway.

2. Horde doesn't turtle and Alliance steamrolls to Drek in the EXACT same f'ing time it took them pre-2.4 but we can BARELY get SP under control before they start on Drek. That means we're losing North and South bunker cap honor plus many times SH and IW bunker cap honor because they can push to Drek so fast.

Even pre 2.4 Horde in our battlegroup almost never try and race the Alliance due to the SP/bridge choke points.

All of this stems from the fact that Alliance are forced to go in one path from our lieutenant to TP to IB and then straight to RH. Our archers are a joke and they don't have 4 aggro elite NPC's standing right next to the GY that prevent them from capping it. So, while 1 or 2 Alliance at AS can hold off a full group of Horde from capping, it takes 10-15 minimum at the RH to prevent Alliance from capping it... And our East and West towers are ticking down as they do it, too.

Which is why a solid defense is crucial to a Horde victory. You *can* cap the alliance base without the towers firing at you or aggroing the elite NPCs. I do it all the time on my rogue. Sneak into the base, pull the 4 guards and kill them, cap the GY.

What makes me sick is knowing that Blizz did this so that you couldn't have 10 minute games anymore. My guess is that they didn't want AV games to take 1/3 the amount of time that an AB takes and give 3 times the honor, so they tried to force Horde to play D. It's disgusting.

I am almost positive the motivation for the change had nothing to do with the time an AV takes. Alliance cried and cried and cried about losing almost every AV which is why Blizzard changed it. Maybe it is different in your battlegroup but in my battlegroup there are very few AV losses and quite frequently we beat the Alliance without them capping any towers. I've probably done around 30-40 AVs and only lost 3 or 4.

After getting 7 toons kitted in full S1/Vindicator's, I don't think I'd ever have the patience to do this again on a single other toon. Ever.

Instead of approaching BGs as a means to farm honor for gear with PvP being a side-effect you might enjoy it more if you approach it as a means to PvP with honor and gear being a side-effect.

[Mosg2]

Most of your battlegroup's problems seem to stem from the fact that people aren't there for total honor per hour. When people are there for "fun" without being focused, it turns my smooth 10 minute honor runs into 30+ minute clusterfvcks.

I'll be honest, I don't give a flying fvck if we win or lose, I just want to get the maximum honor per hour. Depending on 35 other people to do something productive for me to have fun is the exact reason I started multi-boxing in the first place.

As for the changes themselves... Now nothing is going to change except to FORCE Horde into playing defense and giving the Alliance zero honor. On your battlegroup it was already happening... Now it will spread like a disease to all battlegroups.

As an aside... I've never enjoyed AV, nor any of the battlegrounds unless I'm coming in a full-force premade. I hate depending on other people to do stuff in order to win, especially when those people are mostly 12 year olds with ADD. I've been slowly farming AB tokens to get my last honor piece and I can't even begin to explain how frustrating it is to go on and cap 3 different flags and then have nobody to defend. One could argue that maybe I should D what I cap... But having 4 people D something that only needs 2 will put pressure on the other nodes and make it even more unlikely that we'll win.

Finally... With all due respect... Please don't tell me you think that you sneaking into AS on your Rogue and a group of Horde trying to get to the AS are even near the same thing. Sure, you can go on the left side of that tonka truck in the middle of their base and then run to the AS and pull the guards to the other side, but JUST getting to the flag itself puts my lead Shaman from 10k buffed to about 2k from just arrows alone. It's almost impossible to get there alive running in by yourself, let alone then being able to deal with the flag defenders AND whatever Alliance are hanging around.

All I'm trying to say is that if Blizzard wanted to try and make Alliance win more (Even considering BG's like my own where they win 90%+ of the games) then they should have moved their starting point forward instead of moving ours farther back. Hell, there's probably a dozen other solutions that'd work that would even out the win/loss ratio. This one seems misinformed and ill-guided. In any case, as I said before, I'm happy I'm pretty much done with AV as an honor farm. Ugh.

[thinus]

My battlegroup doesn't have a problem, we actually like to PvP in a PvP BG and we play to win, go figure.

And as I said before, you will enjoy AV if you changed your approach but apparently your idea of fun is maximizing your honor and not actually PvPing.

[Mosg2]

All right, I intentionally made my post non-personal, but you had to go there:

AV is not "pvp". It's "zergfest". Any scrub can go in there and get to the top of the boards due to the sheer number of people to hide behind. How many honestly skillful people have you met in AV? Almost none? Wow, that's amazing, because after grinding SEVEN toons to full S1/Vindicator's I feel the *exact* same way!

You're judging the world solely off of how YOU see it, and that's just plain wrong. I'm NEVER going to enjoy AV because it inherently a) lacks any real person skill to do well or poorly, and b) you are entrusting your honor per hour to ~35 other people who you most likely don't know.

It's great that you get enough epeen out of winning, but I'd rather maximise my time spent doing something I don't enjoy. Just because we're coming at it from two different angles doesn't make me right or you right or vice versa, but it does mean that you need to respect the fact that many people, not just myself, are there for honor and not for "fun" first.