oFollow Discussion

[Feehza]

Also for the addon to do overlays... you have to unlock the API to allow it which is also against TOS. (much like some people remove locked API for scripting their rotation etc like you could back in WOTLK)

Its not like these addons who use 3d projected textures. This is locked since LK or Cata. ofollow use standard frames

[Ualaa]

I don't know how it works... but I know you're not supposed to charge for an addon.

If the program is a licensing device of some sort, to all the addon to work...
But doesn't actually do anything else.

And the addon, which uses Blizzard provided API achieves its' magic via the addon system...
It could very well be removed tomorrow, for bypassing a feature which was removed.
But then again, so could IWT -- whether with a Vendor, a Mount or a player Druid in Stag Form.

If it uses Blizzard addon code (the Blizzard API) to do its' functionality, it is allowed within Warcraft until such time as Blizzard changes their API to disallow whatever functions the addon uses.

IS Boxer has the ability to withhold the sending of keys, despite having the keys pushed.
So if this program/addon were to broadcast your movement key (on the main) to W + A + D on the slaves, and then withheld the A and D on occasion... to correct your aim...
As long as everything that determined positioning was done with the Blizzard API (functionality provided for addons to use), it would be entirely fine.



On the other hand, if it reads memory or otherwise scans the game, then it probably isn't going to be allowed long term.

I could also see including the program, as a requirement for the addon to function, entirely so that it is the program that is being charged for... and the addon is free.

I don't know enough of how this works to comment.
If it relies on the API, whether that functionality of the API is being used as intended or not, then it is fine to use.

Again though, that is speculation.
Keyclone has been legit forever, and a part of the boxing community far longer than myself.
That he has developed it, and not someone who is new/unknown to the community, supports that it might not be against the ToS/EULA.
But I don't really know...

[Khatovar]

Oh come on already! We Been doing stuff blizzard has not wanted in a long time here's a few.

There's a VAST difference between doing stuff "Blizzard doesn't want" and using standard functions to serve our purposes. If Blizzard doesn't want us to use something, they'll remove the functionality, tell us "We don't like how this was being used" and leave it at that, just like they did with the old Decursive, whispercasting, minimap ping-targetting etc.

,,,,,,,,,,, timing got removed. We find a way round it.

I'm still waiting for Blizz to remove the ability to use armor by slot number or allow it to have a failure action so if it can't be used it's just like trying to use a spell you don't have. Until then, it's fair game using something that is accepted by the standard macro interface. And even if it does go, people will just switch to using some of the other methods, like "timing" it through castsequences.

ctm-itw had been a topic for a long time. Not what it was made for! (and i check every ptr patch waiting for it to get removed)

I hardly consider that a "questionable" tactic. We're using it for exactly what it's meant for, movement and interaction.

Spamming loads off keys at the Same time you get banned for saying this on the other site (or topics removed) dark topic still yet we all still use it. the "one key press at a time". is it ok to use?

I'll keep my mouth shut about why it would be taboo "elsewhere" but I've yet to see anyone, at any time, banned or actioned for sending too many keys at once in this manner. Could you get actioned for flooding the servers? Sure, but I think you'd really have to go out of your way to create a hotkey that would send that much information to the servers. For our purposes, we have the ability to duplicate this with ingame macros by using /click.

All the top stuff had nerver been oked by blizzard and has been use at own risk not saying we should use ofollow if its automated but bending the rules is what we good at. and if all this does is finds a system blizzard forgot about then its all good.

Everything you've mentioned is wholly doable within the game using Blizzard's own macro system. It doesn't need to be given a stamp of approval for us to use it, Blizzard already gave their stamp of approval when they added it to the game for any player to use.

This, IMO, is not the same thing as what oFollow is trying to do. Blizzard very deliberately removed the ability for people to use the follow command in BGs. Then they came out and said "Hey, we did this on purpose, we don't want people to use /follow in BGs anymore." And oFollow is NOT using an alternative method as provided by an ingame function, it requires the download and use of an external, paid program that reads information on the game client to automatically adjust and move a specific toon in a very specific path to get to a goal location. There is NO ingame function that can duplicate this. It is not now, nor has it ever been, possible to do what oFollow is trying to do via any combination of ingame actions.

i looked into ofollow

short summary of the functionality:

- get x,y values via GetPlayerMapPosition
- set dot frames and the color for it via blablaframe:SetTexture(r,g,b)


- then (as many others assumed) the binary reads out the colors of the dot and trying to reach to the position of the main via movement keys


i wont upload the whole addon and binary for a public download.
Screenshot:

Attachment 885

Thank you for digging in to this Feehza. This works exactly how I expected it to when I read the instructions.

[Shodokan]

I don't know how it works... but I know you're not supposed to charge for an addon.

If the program is a licensing device of some sort, to all the addon to work...
But doesn't actually do anything else.

And the addon, which uses Blizzard provided API achieves its' magic via the addon system...
It could very well be removed tomorrow, for bypassing a feature which was removed.
But then again, so could IWT -- whether with a Vendor, a Mount or a player Druid in Stag Form.

If it uses Blizzard addon code (the Blizzard API) to do its' functionality, it is allowed within Warcraft until such time as Blizzard changes their API to disallow whatever functions the addon uses.

IS Boxer has the ability to withhold the sending of keys, despite having the keys pushed.
So if this program/addon were to broadcast your movement key (on the main) to W + A + D on the slaves, and then withheld the A and D on occasion... to correct your aim...
As long as everything that determined positioning was done with the Blizzard API (functionality provided for addons to use), it would be entirely fine.



On the other hand, if it reads memory or otherwise scans the game, then it probably isn't going to be allowed long term.

I could also see including the program, as a requirement for the addon to function, entirely so that it is the program that is being charged for... and the addon is free.

I don't know enough of how this works to comment.
If it relies on the API, whether that functionality of the API is being used as intended or not, then it is fine to use.

Again though, that is speculation.
Keyclone has been legit forever, and a part of the boxing community far longer than myself.
That he has developed it, and not someone who is new/unknown to the community, supports that it might not be against the ToS/EULA.
But I don't really know...

We won't know unless someone gets banned for it.

[ebony]

There's a VAST difference between doing stuff "Blizzard doesn't want" and using standard functions to serve our purposes. If Blizzard doesn't want us to use something, they'll remove the functionality, tell us "We don't like how this was being used" and leave it at that, just like they did with the old Decursive, whispercasting, minimap ping-targetting etc.




I'm still waiting for Blizz to remove the ability to use armor by slot number or allow it to have a failure action so if it can't be used it's just like trying to use a spell you don't have. Until then, it's fair game using something that is accepted by the standard macro interface. And even if it does go, people will just switch to using some of the other methods, like "timing" it through castsequences.



I hardly consider that a "questionable" tactic. We're using it for exactly what it's meant for, movement and interaction.



I'll keep my mouth shut about why it would be taboo "elsewhere" but I've yet to see anyone, at any time, banned or actioned for sending too many keys at once in this manner. Could you get actioned for flooding the servers? Sure, but I think you'd really have to go out of your way to create a hotkey that would send that much information to the servers. For our purposes, we have the ability to duplicate this with ingame macros by using /click.




Everything you've mentioned is wholly doable within the game using Blizzard's own macro system. It doesn't need to be given a stamp of approval for us to use it, Blizzard already gave their stamp of approval when they added it to the game for any player to use.

This, IMO, is not the same thing as what oFollow is trying to do. Blizzard very deliberately removed the ability for people to use the follow command in BGs. Then they came out and said "Hey, we did this on purpose, we don't want people to use /follow in BGs anymore." And oFollow is NOT using an alternative method as provided by an ingame function, it requires the download and use of an external, paid program that reads information on the game client to automatically adjust and move a specific toon in a very specific path to get to a goal location. There is NO ingame function that can duplicate this. It is not now, nor has it ever been, possible to do what oFollow is trying to do via any combination of ingame actions.




Thank you for digging in to this Feehza. This works exactly how I expected it to when I read the instructions.

yes am with you on most the stuff here. they said they never removed follow because of us. they just said there ok with us not doing it.

[Ronburgundy]

All I can say is that I have used oFollow, and it works great. Yet, if you are the kind who doesn't speed on the highway, I would heed the warning on the site.

[Owltoid]

All I can say is that I have used oFollow, and it works great. Yet, if you are the kind who doesn't speed on the highway, I would heed the warning on the site.

Do you have the same feelings about bots to get you honor?

[Peri Helion]

Has anyone tried asking Blizzard?

I see from the various Follow threads there are members of this community that have contacted Blizzard directly in the past to determine if what they were doing were acceptable. I appreciate Ron taking one for the team and giving it a try, but even if he never gets banned it isnt conclusive.

I also see this degenerating into a marketing war (not on these pages though) as people with a vested economic interest in either elevating their own product or denegrating the author of their competitors software begin to make this personal and use a lot of adjectives and invective without any definitive statements from a clear and unbiased party.

[Ronburgundy]

Do you have the same feelings about bots to get you honor?

No.

Regardless of whatever method I want to use, or you want to use, to get my toons from point A to point B, when my toons get there I am in control of the combat functions, I decide who to attack, and how to attack them. A honor bot, (assuming one that doesn't just stand in place and jump), makes all of its decisions without any real time human interaction.

I am not going to get into it with anyone on the technical intricacies of how oFollow works, I rest my head on the pure fact that when I look behind my main, my slaves are right behind me, or they are stuck on a mailbox, or a fence post, and it functions the same, if not alittle worse than /follow used to. If oFollow gave the player some new kind of miraculous new ability that /follow didn't I would feel differently, but it doesn't it just does what we used to do with /follow, regardless of how it does it thats what its doing.

[Owltoid]

No.

Regardless of whatever method I want to use, or you want to use, to get my toons from point A to point B, when my toons get there I am in control of the combat functions, I decide who to attack, and how to attack them. A honor bot, (assuming one that doesn't just stand in place and jump), makes all of its decisions without any real time human interaction.

I am not going to get into it with anyone on the technical intricacies of how oFollow works, I rest my head on the pure fact that when I look behind my main, my slaves are right behind me, or they are stuck on a mailbox, or a fence post, and it functions the same, if not alittle worse than /follow used to. If oFollow gave the player some new kind of miraculous new ability that /follow didn't I would feel differently, but it doesn't it just does what we used to do with /follow, regardless of how it does it thats what its doing.

I ask because your comments imply that those who avoid oFollow are just being overly paranoid and goody two-shoes. In reality, if oFollow works as others have described, then it's simply a gimped botting program. I asked if you were ok with honor botting and your response makes very little sense - you're not ok with it because those programs because they make all decisions, yet you're ok with oFollow that makes movement decisions. Your rationale is that /follow used to have that functionality so it is ok now, willfully disregarding that Blizzard removed that functionality. I assume that you'd be ok with a program that allowed decursing to work the way it did with addons in Vanilla, even though Blizzard explicitly removed the functionality because it made healing too easy.

The reality is this is a botting program, and I'd be surprised if you're not caught relatively soon. I actually hope you do. You can BG very effectively without /follow, but if you want to do something that is clearly cheating, then I have no respect for any of your "accomplishments" in WoW.