Drop the Shaman for the last slot and fill it up with a DK?

[zenga]

Apparently the searing totem will only attack the dummy if you have put flame shock on the dummy. Since I pretty much never use flame shock in my enhancement PvP rotation, I was never able to see the totem attack and give me my lava lash buff.

I'm guessing Ellay isn't using flame shock either, which means my original comment holds - the searing totem is not attacking the dummy and your lava lash is being gimped.

You are correct. I never realized that one would opt to not use flame shock when doing a dps test vs the target dummies, since flame shock is one of the highest damage per cast spells for enhancement. Searing totem used to be tied to flame shock prior to mop, so it would only attack those targets that had the FS dot on them. Luckily the searing totem AI improved a lot, but my guess is that the dummies are a weird target and still use the old mechanic.

So yeah not getting the buff from unleash elements for flame shock (since FS is your only fire spell as enhance when specced into unleashed fury), no searing totem damage and no searing flames to buff for lava lash might explain those low numbers.

but I noticed you were standing next to another training dummy so some of those numbers would be inflated from aoe on the lava lash with Flameshock jumping to it right? I mean it's still really good dps numbers, just trying to get it as accurate as possible.

Flameshock will not spread on those dummies by lava lash, since the range is apparently too big (I just double checked it to make sure). But to make sure I glyphed lava lash so it wouldn't spread.

I added flame shock back in the dps loss of not using it as the first shock is massive. Even in pvp it seems.

I'm not sure after reading this if you are using it or not (lost in translation here).

[Owltoid]

I never realized that one would opt to not use flame shock when doing a dps test vs the target dummies, since flame shock is one of the highest damage per cast spells for enhancement.

For PvE, yes. For PvP, if your target lives long enough to make that FS do more damage than the ES you could have cast, then something is wrong. FS is one slow DoT while ES can hit pretty hard, especially with the increased crit from Stormstrike.

I'm guessing Ellay saw the loss in DPS on training dummies and put FS back into the rotation. It is a big DPS loss if you're not getting your searing totem damage and buff. That doesn't actually happen in PvP, though, as the searing totem will attack without FS being on the target. In actual PvP, FS has very limited use for enhancement and will likely be a DPS/burst loss compared to ES (that won't be reflected in tests on a dummy).

[Ellay]

Zenga can you link me to your armory and tell me your general casting rotation that you are using?

I just got the PvP Weapons on my Shaman and my DK's aren't even using them and the damage is still craptastic. I'm losing in my opinion an overall 10% by having the Shaman around, and I'm by no means having you try to convince. I want to fix this. Truly

I will work on getting a combat log parse going in the meantime.

[Ellay]

I went full PvE spec for PvP just to try and maximize DPS. Got up to 60k on a training dummy and it tapers off now at 47k which is a lot better than the 36-38k. I see crits of 125k, but that is with ilvl 470 weapons. I'm assuming yours are higher. Popping hero obviously gives more.

I have lightning bolt being spammed as the priority every 8 seconds with glyph that will cast it while moving, this essentially let's one go through even if you have a 4 stack.


Went ahead using this macro, with feral spirit and Fire ele totem on a separate key.

/castsequence [mod] Searing Totem;reset=combat Searing Totem,null
/castsequence reset=target Flame Shock,null
/castsequence reset=0.3 0,0,0,Lava Lash
/castsequence reset=0.3 0,0,Stormstrike
/castsequence reset=0.3 0,Unleash Elements
/castsequence reset=5/target Flame Shock,Earth Shock,Earth Shock,Unleash Elements
/cast [combat] Ascendance
/use Dreadful Gladiator's Badge of Conquest
/startattack

[heyaz]

Once you have multiple targets, the aoe of DKs spikes their DPS pretty high.

I don't have a good pve rotation and am gemmed 100% pvp power which doesn't affect target dummies, but my DK did about 60k sustained on a target dummy. Obliterate crits are 125-160k.

Against my druid w/ 61% resil and 380k hp, fully hotted, recount showed about 60k, but of course it's hard to get a good idea of a pvp situation from recount averaging that, since the fight is <15 seconds and there are obviously some big spikes. Depending on KM procs, time to engage, etc. you could be pulling 20k, or 100k single target. RNG and the logistics of the fight, like uptime on the target.

Multiple target (3+) it was >100k with howling blast and diseases. Add pets and D&D and it's a little higher. In PVP situations, gorefiend's grasp and several DK's spiking over 100k dps on fully geared targets... huge damage all over the place.

I wonder if the shaman's damage spikes with several targets due to flame shock spreading.

[Ellay]

When I'm running my numbers I'm trying to take into account the damage the shaman is putting out vs the hypothetical damage the dk's are putting out single target. If I can get the Shaman to 80k+ burst and 55-60k sustained I will be very happy. I don't think it's that far off. Just needs further tweaking.

[zenga]

Zenga can you link me to your armory

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Zënga/simple

and tell me your general casting rotation that you are using?

specced into unleash fury/echo
Searing down, I open with unleash elements, flame shock (glyphed), stormstrike, lava lash, lightning bolt, rinse and repeat with whatever comes off cd, where searing totem is highest priority follwed by unleash elements and 5 stack LB. Pop pets/cds as you see fit.

Edit: I just ran your toon aelli through simcraft (an app that simulates a boss fight) and your dps is 65.730. That is a tank and spank fight, over the course of 450 seconds, a normal target for the hit cap and low lag; assuming all raid buffs and debuffs are present.

If you were to replace your enchants with dancing steel on both your off and mainhand, your dps goes up to 68.728.
Glyph of flame shock increased that dps with another 1.7k.

This is the damage breakdown per execute time from you armory:



Note: I ran only 10,000 iterations, which might result in some variation in the outcome. You can go up to 50k iterations to reduce the noise yourself if you'd wish to do so. (google simulation craft, download/install, under options set what you want, enable/disable debuffs, import from the armory under import, then simulate, fairly straighforward and a great help as you can get a more indepth view of whats going on).

Edit 2:

Ran the dk that looks to be the best geared one and that I found in your 5s team, through simcraft as well: 75.198 dps, under the same conditions. (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Ellãy/simple)

Sarahfierce: 70815
And the dk with the tilde on the a: 72.944

[Ellay]

Thanks for the link, will further test. As you see from the macro above. It's basically exactly that rotation. Checked dancing steel enchant and it's 3.7k on my server... almost 8k for both weapons. Ouch

[Owltoid]

This is such a PvE thread. Do that sim over 8 seconds, much longer than any focused target should survive, and see if flame shock has as good of value. (intentionally sarcastic to harp on the point that training dummies and PvE rotations are not what to focus on in PvP, otherwise they will lead you too poor choices, such as using flame shock when the target dies very quickly)

[zenga]

This is such a PvE thread. Do that sim over 8 seconds, much longer than any focused target should survive, and see if flame shock has as good of value. (intentionally sarcastic to harp on the point that training dummies and PvE rotations are not what to focus on in PvP, otherwise they will lead you too poor choices, such as using flame shock when the target dies very quickly)

It's important for the analysis of his claim that his shaman is doing so much less damage vs a target dummy. His testing method for the comparison was a pve one, and all available data/parses/simulations point in the other direction. Werther spell A or not is better for a boxed pvp setup than spell B is a whole other decision (like if someone was to say that howling blast did more total dmg in arena than obliterate and would use that comparison to draw a conclusion that HB is just better, while the burst dmg is actually the only relevant thing in this example).