Drop the Shaman for the last slot and fill it up with a DK?

[Ellay]

I run recount on everything I do. My Enhancement Shaman is constantly being outperformed. I realize some DPS a DK gets is from AoE and the dots it provides. I take that into account.
I also take into account the Shaman brings the Mastery buff which is a solid 10% more frost damage bonus going from 26% currently to 36% increased frost damage.
The problem is, the Shaman just isn't bringing the dps I need to the table. For 5v5 Arena's or BG's the shaman usually sits at half the dps and damage done of any 3 of the DK's. I'll even go so far as to say he's using a dagger ilvl 471 mainhand and a 450 offhand while the DK's are sporting 484 2h on two of them and 471 on one of them. But still are you telling me I'm going to see an increase of DOUBLE the damage done with new weapons? I'll find out on Tuesday when I get the PvP weapons which will be massive because the DK's don't have them and won't until the following week, yet I still don't think he'll be able to pump out the damage.

They need ramp up time. My numbers on a lvl 85 training dummy, just 1 - no aoe targets The DK's after about 3-5 minutes pull 52-53k DPS. The shaman? Sitting at 36-38k. My rotation is down pat pretty well, this also includes not dropping stormlash totem or heroism, mainly because heroism doesn't work in arenas and that's where it counts.

Drop the Shaman from the group and the DK's dps after 3-5 minutes is 50-51k. So if I do the math and say the Shaman group buffs give my DK's 2.5k dps each, hopefully being more than fair. That's 7.5k total. Add that to 37k dps and we are at 44.5k. I'm missing an extra 5.5k that another DK in the same gear could provide me.

Another concerning thing I notice when I run a recount on a training dummy, the DK's start off with massive DPS to the tune of 60-65k. The shaman? goes from 20k usually and ramps up. Taking almost 10 seconds to get to that lovely 45k dps spot and then tapering down because Ascendance wore off.

I need that burst, and I need it on demand. The problem is this also hurts my PvE group if I switch it up. Currently I run Tanking Druid and Resto Shaman so I get the 5% crit buff from the druid and the Shaman allows Heroism and Stormlash, making fights go much easier. I'd lose that and only gain another Army of the Dead.

All in all, it's really hard to decide, I wish - really wish Enhancement Shaman performed better. I've spent so many hours perfectly the DPS rotation and I know without a doubt it 90+% optimal which is what any boxer typically wants. I just don't think it's enough.

Is this enough reason? Should I honestly wait until I get the pvp weapons (which is pretty soon)? I don't like wasting time, or putting in effort for a class that isn't or ever for that matter going to perform well. Shaman in general are always on the bottom of the totem pole because Resto performs so well, they have no incentive to fix the other specs. Shaman are also amazing stacked, which I am not doing here.

That's my rant, tell me what you think.

[Ellay]

One more thing. The AoE damage isn't wasted damage either. I've had many fights already in arenas where I'm focusing down a target and it's not dropping but another target is already at 60% hp because those dots do hurt and they can't heal everyone. A hard swap over and that target drops. This right here after seeing that just further fuels the incentive of adding that DK and looking forward to a possible 4x Unholy DK spec for 5.2.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I can't see using a shaman for anything but healing.

[Ualaa]

The shaman does add some utility, but you'll have to judge if it is worth the loss of DPS.
Tremor Totem, is a raid-wide fear/charm/sleep break.
Grounding Totem, is a spell absorb.



How much of your game is PvE and how much is PvP?
It seems the Shaman/Druid is a large portion of the PvE play.
If your PvE is half of your game, it might be worthwhile keeping even if its not absolutely optimal in the PvP end.
If it turns out PvE is something you do now and then, but PvP is the vast majority of your play time... the PvP change might be worthwhile.

PvE is generally much easier than PvP, because you're going against scripted/predictable events.
One of your DKs could go Blood, and the Druid could stay Healer.
That might not be as optimal, but being as close to optimal as possible is likely more important for PvP than for PvE, where a lot of things are doable.

[Ellay]

For PvE the dynamic would change to the Druid going Healing and a DK going Blood, which works fine it's just overall hypothetically less DPS. Although I must say a DK tanks better.

Edit:
To answer further I'd say right now it's 60% PvP / 40% PvE, overall I'm more of a 75% / 25% kind of player, and I didn't think I would be enjoying it as much but 5's are definitely interesting to me.

And to note, say the Shamans DPS does go way up and it's close to a DK's, it just means when the DK's get their weapons they are going to spur right past and beyond. Overlal I'm saying Shamans should be doing better but they aren't

[Chivalrous]

I'd drop the shaman. I'd probably drop mine if I had another warrior/hunter/DK/paladin near 90. Only other classes I have close to 90 are mages and rogues.

Let me know the results if you do!

[Owltoid]

Pretty sure searing totem doesn't attack training dummies, which means you're losing that DPS plus the buff to flametongue weapon. That's a material difference.

[zenga]

They need ramp up time. My numbers on a lvl 85 training dummy, just 1 - no aoe targets The DK's after about 3-5 minutes pull 52-53k DPS. The shaman? Sitting at 36-38k. My rotation is down pat pretty well, this also includes not dropping stormlash totem or heroism, mainly because heroism doesn't work in arenas and that's where it counts.
...
Another concerning thing I notice when I run a recount on a training dummy, the DK's start off with massive DPS to the tune of 60-65k. The shaman? goes from 20k usually and ramps up. Taking almost 10 seconds to get to that lovely 45k dps spot and then tapering down because Ascendance wore off.

I need that burst, and I need it on demand. The problem is this also hurts my PvE group if I switch it up. Currently I run Tanking Druid and Resto Shaman so I get the 5% crit buff from the druid and the Shaman allows Heroism and Stormlash, making fights go much easier. I'd lose that and only gain another Army of the Dead.

All in all, it's really hard to decide, I wish - really wish Enhancement Shaman performed better. I've spent so many hours perfectly the DPS rotation and I know without a doubt it 90+% optimal which is what any boxer typically wants. I just don't think it's enough.

It's hard to judge what is wrong without combatlogs. All I can tell you is that enhancement is in a great spot, both in pve and pvp. In pve it's generally better performing than frost dks. Definitely 2-3 months ago when all raid data was based on much lower ilvl than currently. But then again we are talking about less than 1% difference in performance. That is obviously from a single player perspective. And that is not data that I pull out of my ass, it's based on 1000s of combat logs. These are the results for all people who run normal raids, which tend to be both lower geared and less optimized players. The same results but then for heroic raids (typically better geared and more optimized players). I consider 25m less relevant since they typically have every buff, whereas a 10m raid is closer to a 5m group.

But one thing is sure: enhancement does not have a big ramp up time, and they do have pretty sick burst, even on demand.

I just recorded a short clip vs the training dummy, and I have very little raiding experience as enhancement (i.e. I'm far from optimizing the rotation, it's basically just an offspec I use to do dailies. but I do have a pretty good theoretical knowledge about the spec this tier). Forgot to pop wolves for the most part, was hard casting a lb with 1 stack of mealstrom, ... you get the idea. And still manage to get easily in the 120k range, without stormlash/bloodlust/raid buffs ...

It is absolutely possible that enhance is just way harder to box than frost dks, but that shouldn't explain the results you are getting. With equal gear the enhance should always have the same and possibly more potential than the dk. So I'm afraid that you are doing something wrong.

The best way (unless you have made up your mind that you will ditch the enhance) is to provide an armory link and a combat log.

To upload a combat log:
1. Go to worldoflogs.com, make an account an create a fake guild on whatever realm.
2. In your /world of warcraft/log folder there is a txt file located called WoWCombatLog, delete that one (if you have never logged there should be no file of course) i.e. make sure you have no file there
3. When you are ready, type in wow /combatlog and you should get a chatmessage saying something like: logging now
4. Go nuts on the dummy or even better run a dungeon
5. Type /combatlog in wow to turn the logging off
6. login to worldoflogs.com and you should see a link in the upper right hand corner called 'client' (you need to have java installed for that)
7. you then should have 3 options and you need 'open a file', but under edit/preferences you should set your combatlog location and worldoflogs login/pass if the tool doesn't ask you for it
8 locate your combat log
9. upload
10. paste link here and we can start checking what the issue is to hopefully save you from rerolling

[zenga]

Pretty sure searing totem doesn't attack training dummies, which means you're losing that DPS plus the buff to flametongue weapon. That's a material difference.

It does attack the dummy, always has been doing so btw.

[Fat Tire]

Should I honestly wait until I get the pvp weapons (which is pretty soon)?

Yes.

I could imagine solar beam being a cool rush down tactic which the enhancement brings thru sym that another dk wouldnt.