WCRadio - Octale & Hordak vs the World - Antiboxer email

[Eteocles]

Aye it's all opinions Octale...I think the core thing they're trying to get at is you guys're popular and have an audience and audiences tend to be mindless sheep/lemmings and they're just worried some mis-speaking(which you did indeed apologize for and are working to correct) might cause extra issue from some of the less .... thoughtful sheep :p Or to put it in a way you'll connect with, someone's gonna hear a name and open fire with their hatorade hoses ;) Like Threadjacking but without the funny intent lol

[Tdog]

Do I think you're a fool for doing it? Yep, and that's not going to change. Do I think there's nobility in being able to solo instances or 2-man Kara on 10 toons by multi-boxing? Nope, not one shread; that's not going to change either. If you choose to do it for the sake of doing it, by all means, do so.

I like the pot shot at calling us fools. Doesn't the same apply to most anyone playing WoW? The people spending 40 hours a week, half of it raiding, on a game? The people who put so much time and effort in to arena? The people who just grind their way to mounds of gold.?

See, you're missing the point again. It's *your* money, do with it as you please. I am not going to throw myself at your feet crying "mea culpa" for thinking spending 30-75 dollars a month to play the same game on multimple characters at the same time is foolish. Does it really matter that I think it's foolish? You could just as easily look at any of my expenditures and say I am a fool for alloting financial resources in such a way. That's your choice, same as it is mine for thinking paying to mbox is foolish (or perhaps, "a waste of money" is a better phrase at this point).

So, by all means, pick the one slightly negative thing out of a post where I, again, state in no uncertain terms that it is *your money* and you point that out to everyone; a thing that isn't even really negative in as much as it is my honest opinion of mboxing. Now, I've been about as nice about this as I am going to be by coming here, admitting that I was wrong, and stating to Vyndree (regardless of whether she reads it or not) and this community at large that I am going to take some amount of the scarce resource that is my airtime, and try to, on some level, make things right with this community. It's bad that a month has gone by since this happened, and I wish we'd have received Vyn's email such that we could have dealt with it sooner, but we didn't. So, I'm going to do the best I can.

Me personally I couldn't give less of a crap if you, someone I've don't know nor have I ever heard any of your shows, thinks I'm a fool for spending an extra $60 bucks a month on a hobby I like. Like you just stated in your post there are probably things I could say about you if I were given a little info on your life that I might consider foolish as well. Not trying to be a dick but your opinion of me, as I don't know you, doesn't mean a thing to me.

However...

I think some of the people here are getting upset about the fact that you insult not only that which you have not tried but, judging by some of the posts I've read from you and the users here, also don't really seem to understand what it is they do. Blind insults, suprise suprise!, do piss people off. Now this just my thoughts on the matter, and you of course don't have to care about a thing I have to say, but perhaps instead of judging something you aren't really fully understanding next time simply say something to the effect of "I don't have all the info on the topic and will not comment on it till I do." But hey that's just my opinion and take it however you like.

As I said in a previous post in this thread though, people need to get thicker skins. I've been called much much worse than a fool every single time I log on. I get a hate msg probably once every 20-30 mins. Telling me that "YOU'RE A FUCKING LOSER WITH NO GAWD LIFE!" "GET LAID YOU STUPID P.O.S!!!" "NO LIFE NO LIFE NO LIFE!!!" "So what's it like living in your mom's basement at age 35?" "It's assholes like you that destroy this game. Go kill yourself dickwad!" I can keep going on for awhile but I think you get my point. And no....I'm not exaggerating even a little bit on those comments, all of which were said to me from people I had never met that were simply passing by.

[Bigfish]

See, you're missing the point again. It's *your* money, do with it as you please. I am not going to throw myself at your feet crying "mea culpa" for thinking spending 30-75 dollars a month to play the same game on multimple characters at the same time is foolish. Does it really matter that I think it's foolish? You could just as easily look at any of my expenditures and say I am a fool for alloting financial resources in such a way. That's your choice, same as it is mine for thinking paying to mbox is foolish (or perhaps, "a waste of money" is a better phrase at this point).

So, by all means, pick the one slightly negative thing out of a post where I, again, state in no uncertain terms that it is *your money* and you point that out to everyone; a thing that isn't even really negative in as much as it is my honest opinion of mboxing. Now, I've been about as nice about this as I am going to be by coming here, admitting that I was wrong, and stating to Vyndree (regardless of whether she reads it or not) and this community at large that I am going to take some amount of the scarce resource that is my airtime, and try to, on some level, make things right with this community. It's bad that a month has gone by since this happened, and I wish we'd have received Vyn's email such that we could have dealt with it sooner, but we didn't. So, I'm going to do the best I can.

See, that's just the thing, its hard to bury the hatchet when you continue to make statements like that. You think were fools? Awesome! I'm sure most people here think no better of you. We don't need you to tell us how little we ought to value your opinion. However, perhaps instead of acting like we ought to just sit back and ignore you consistantly sliding in comments on the side, you should take your own advice. If you want to make things right with the community, stop slipping in "I still think you're fools" at every opportunity. We're aware. Its been beaten in to the ground plenty. Making things right would require you to STOP doing what caused the conflict in the first place.

[Basilikos]

...I think the core thing they're trying to get at is you guys're popular and have an audience and audiences tend to be mindless sheep/lemmings and they're just worried some mis-speaking(which you did indeed apologize for and are working to correct) might cause extra issue from some of the less .... thoughtful sheep

That's pretty much it. I pointed out earlier that I just don't understand some people's desire to spend thousands a year on a few hours of skiing. But I don't call them fools when the subject comes up. See the difference? I don't call you a fool for anything, I merely admonish you to be a little more covert with the way you handle your ideas on strictly subjective matters.

And, for the record, we're not asking for an apology; we just want you to stop with the kneejerk remarks since they have huge potential to cause problems for us.

[Vyndree]

[quote='Octale',index.php?page=Thread&postID=56861# post56861]
Vyndree, I'm quite concerned that I can't find your email in the show's inbox.[/quote]

Sorry for the late response. I've been on a bit of a forum hiatus and haven't been checking up as recently as I should.

The e-mail is copy-pasted in this thread, as well as [url='http://vboxing.net/blog/webs.php/2008/03/24/my-e-mail-to-octale-aamp-hordak-of-wcrad']my blog[/url].

In any case, I will re-send the e-mail to both wcradioshowsATgmail.com and octaleandhordakATgmail.com -- though the former address (wcradioshows) bounced when I originally sent it.

[Basilikos]

Vyn,

Glad you're still alive. I thought you ought to know that on yesterday's show, Octale blasted MBers again and then refused to read anymore emails on it. I think he's a little sore in a sensitive place. I don't know why; he's trying to claim that we were harsh with him.

I'm not quite sure where to go with this. Really, a lot of what he did on his show was decent stuff and the rest of it was pure bile. I just don't get it.

Anyhow, just letting you know.

[Octale]

Vyn,

Glad you're still alive. I thought you ought to know that on yesterday's show, Octale blasted MBers again and then refused to read anymore emails on it. I think he's a little sore in a sensitive place. I don't know why; he's trying to claim that we were harsh with him.

I'm not quite sure where to go with this. Really, a lot of what he did on his show was decent stuff and the rest of it was pure bile. I just don't get it.

Anyhow, just letting you know.

Which part exactly was blasting? The part where I told my audience that multiboxing was not a skill or social issue, but was rather a play-style choice, and that anyone who was a part of my listenerbase should leave you alone? I've done nothing but defend your right to make your choice, regardless of what I think of said choice. I made it (what I thought was) excrutiatingly clear that MBoxers are exactly the same to everyone else in the greater WoW community, and should be allowed to exist in peace the same as any other member of the community. I don't intend on saying anything more about it than that.

With that, I leave you to your game expereince. Vyn, please listen to the segment, and if you still feel I've done you wrong, then I'll bring you on the show to "have your say". Otherwise, I bid this community a pleasant time in WoW, or whatever games you choose to play.

Regards,

Octale

[Bigfish]

Which part exactly was blasting? The part where I told my audience that multiboxing was not a skill or social issue, but was rather a play-style choice, and that anyone who was a part of my listenerbase should leave you alone? I've done nothing but defend your right to make your choice, regardless of what I think of said choice. I made it (what I thought was) excrutiatingly clear that MBoxers are exactly the same to everyone else in the greater WoW community, and should be allowed to exist in peace the same as any other member of the community. I don't intend on saying anything more about it than that.

With that, I leave you to your game expereince. Vyn, please listen to the segment, and if you still feel I've done you wrong, then I'll bring you on the show to "have your say". Otherwise, I bid this community a pleasant time in WoW, or whatever games you choose to play.

Regards,

Octale

Well put.

[Basilikos]

I made it (what I thought was) excrutiatingly clear that MBoxers are exactly the same to everyone else in the greater WoW community, and should be allowed to exist in peace the same as any other member of the community. I don't intend on saying anything more about it than that.

But you have said more than that. I acknowledge that a massive portion of the First Blood segment was dedicated to a respectful clearing-up of common misconceptions in the WoW population regarding MBing. The issue is that your most virulent speech is dedicated to referring to MBers as foolish. Really, we knew what you think of it by default since "foolish" is the number one adjective used to describe us and no one is faulting you for it. The problem rears its ugly head when, especially in this thread but also during your broadcast, you make an excellent attempt at an apology (which, to the best of my recollection, was never expected) but follow it up with more remarks about "foolishness." Usually, this is categorized as a back-handed insult and almost always has the effect of negating any attempts at patching up poor relations. Albeit you were very careful in your most recent broadcast to confine your opinions about our activities to the realm of your personal opinion and nothing else (at least for purposes of the discussion, anyway), but I was hoping the show would be limited to nothing more than the skill / playstyle and other such matters.

Just before the beginning of the First Blood segment, you pointed out that you were going to clarify a few things and then take MBers to task a little since someone in here called you a hypocrite. Well, limiting things to the way they were before your broadcast aired, their criticism of you was technically correct. You offered some sort of an apology and then proceeded to criticize us. I've said it before and I'll say it again - We didn't really expect an apology but appreciate your willingness to hear us out. However, one is not in a position to make any comments about a person or a group of persons immediately after apologizing to them which is what you did.

In case I have failed to clearly state the crux of the matter (which is often a fault of mine), I'll try to sum it up given the background material I have covered here so far. Perhaps many of us are perceiving your intentions wrongly and if we are, please let us know. As it stands now, especially given the history of abuse MBers take on a very frequent basis, your apology was undermined by immediate criticism and someone called you on it; this is AWFULLY familiar to all of us here at dual-boxing.com and it got some of us worried. It almost seemed like your commentary about our playstyle belies your true intentions.

I'll stop for a moment and point out this is how things SEEM. Wrong? Perhaps. But please understand this situation has not presented anything new to us yet and we are going purely off of experience here.

Continuing... Your show basically followed the same lines of discussion and really seems like nothing different when put up against what has gone on in this thread. Wrong? Perhaps. I'm trying to be even handed here, but you have sent mixed signals. And I'm not referring to your opinions about our purchase decisions, I'm referring to the time and place of your expression of those decisions. American culture tends to accept back-handed insults in the form of "I'm sorry, but..." and that might be alright for most people; since you've lived in the US your whole life (or most of it, I assume) you probably weren't aware what was really being said. If that's the case, I'll drop the subject right now. Experience tells me that usually is not the case, though.

And for the record, your show content would have been fine as-is, especially the more opinionated parts, if we had been able to have a better discussion here prior to the show since what went on in this thread would have provided some sort of a positive basis. Instead, some of us were left with, at best, confusing indicators of what your intentions were. In that context, we really couldn't hear much more than blasting on your show despite my previous acknowledgment of the far more accurate picture of MBers provided on your most recent show.

I hope this is at least clearing up where I'm coming from, even if it is due to some sort of misunderstanding.

[thinus]

People actually listen to WCRadio? They seriously need to get a life. Isn't playing the game enough? What's next? WoW underwear? Is that a Ragnaros figurine in your pocket or are you just happy to see me? People actually present on WCRadio, as in spend real time preparing shows and crap like that? Can't they hack it as *real* DJs? Why are they wasting their time like this? Don't they have anything constructive to do?

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