PvP MoP Group - DK + 4 Pally vs 2 DK + 3 Pally

[MiRai]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...3773?page=4#72

We'll probably keep Death Siphon and Necrotic Strike as Death Runes.

[Owltoid]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...3773?page=4#72

We'll probably keep Death Siphon and Necrotic Strike as Death Runes.

That wasn't really in question. If you find a blue post (or any documentation) that says Sacred Shield costs resources (mana or holy power) then I'd be very interested!

[Fat Tire]

nvm

[Palee]

You'll do better with the extra ret opposed to dk.. Dks are going to be hard to actually play and do the most damage possible now while boxing. They are going to be FAR from howling blast spam.

Shodokan, can you elaborate with this? I'm trying to decide between rets and dks as my first MoP team and I'm not sure.
What do you mean DKs are going to be hard? What changes so drastically?

[Shodokan]

Shodokan, can you elaborate with this? I'm trying to decide between rets and dks as my first MoP team and I'm not sure.
What do you mean DKs are going to be hard? What changes so drastically?

Obliterate is necessary now because of damage disparity between it and HB + plague strike (since you can only necrotic twice now)
You also need spare frost runes for the new execute ability
Have to keep track of rime for HB procs much like rets did for exorcism (which won't be the case come MoP)
Have to use frost runes to icy touch for offensive dispel at opportune times which will set off your rotation.
Basically theres going to be a lot more micromanagement to worry about to play them effectively.

I mean you can negate a lot of it but there will be more DPS rotation buttons and such. It's not going to be like it is now where you bind all your stuff to 1 key and kill something in 4 seconds (though they would have the burst for that if you could re-set runes with diseases up and all oblit 3 times).

Dks and rets will be my first teams more than likely still as theres a lot of utility in each's kit. Shaman look REALLY solid as well.

[Fat Tire]

Basically theres going to be a lot more micromanagement to worry about to play them effectively.

This is pretty close to what I have recently experienced in beta. While playing one solo was not bad as my obliterate burst is decent, I dont know how I would box them effectively anymore. Although to be honest I never have boxed more than 2. I found Soul Reaper overall be something I didnt end up liking at all because it was too difficult to use. The players I played against were on the look out for that spell along with remorseless winter. Both were very difficult to get to work in arena for me in beta, players just avoided both those too easily and I wasnt exactly playing against great players. Hybrids and other classes have alot of self healing and while I think conversion is cool I have difficulty using it effectively, lich borne heal is a full heal with full rp so I cant do both that and conversion at the same time and conversion is just another button to press and screws up my dps if I am in the heat of battle. I found howling blast not as effective as it is on live. Warlocks aoe conflag was more effective, lol.

I like to keep things stupid simple(KISS) and dks were stupid simple, they are not as simple anymore.

With that said I am really enjoying the warriors upfront burst - dragons roar with popping some or all dps cooldowns, even if it gets nerfed a little is still a really strong opener combined with rets burst I think bursting down some healers could be possible. Mistweavers and priests are cake to blow up with resto druids,shamans and holy pals a bit more difficult. If there is anyway I can figure how to cast repentance reliably with rets I think it will be a winner.

[Palee]

Hmm Repent has a 1.5 sec cast? Is that accurate?
It was hard to use it when it was instant cast, now it's going to be almost impossible.

[Palee]

Also, feral druids no longer have charge???

[Fat Tire]

Hmm Repent has a 1.5 sec cast? Is that accurate?
It was hard to use it when it was instant cast, now it's going to be almost impossible.

Well I will miss instant cast repent.

http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=20066 (mop)

However, having a cc with a small cooldown for a melee class is amazing if you can get it to work. At the moment the cc chains holy pallies are getting is annoying to say the least. hoj/repent/blind and given that these all have a range and are not subject to melee range only is pretty huge.

[Shodokan]

After watching lots of vids and talking to some friends I feel that dks will still be strong. With the recent re-nerf of resil to be around 60% opposed to up to 80% oblits are still critting for 1/3 of the opponent's life. In 5's if you can CC out one healer and sit the other with all your burst going (AOE disease application, and are able to get 3 oblits on each dk + frost strikes + more oblits and dumping your rime procs after your burst phase is over you WILL kill something). The main problem is other than the initial burst dks have no AOE presence like they do on live and you can't kill an entire team inside a spirit link.

For boxing 2 though fat tire other than a few small things dks are still very boxable especially if you have a warrior with you as their DPS can be macro'd very simply it seems. Other than jumping away for charges and such for positioning theres no reason to lead from the warrior anymore. Essentially TSG is just going to need a charge stun to remorseless winter and then burst to win.

Now i'm certainly not saying that dks are going to be the optimal thing to box. But their single target burst is on par with warriors and both are superior to rets in that category. Also with the change to how much RP it costs to frost strike allows for good burst as well as those still hit for 30k a piece and can crit for up to 70k...if you can chain 5 in a row thats going to be another 150k damage which is about 1/2 their HP. With 1s global GCD it will be pretty good still. It also allows you to actually get dispels and not rely on warrior stopping to shatter anything but bubbles/ice blocks.

If you have no healer though, you want 4 rets for the healing.