Alliance win percentages this AV weekend

[Invisahealz]

But Tiny's addon Oqueue, is really neat.
Similar idea, but instead of each player queuing as a solo, the group leaders each queue at once.
If you use real-id, so each of the leaders is on the same realm... that overcomes the one server that queues faster than the others, which is very common in PreForm games.

here is the addon
http://www.solidice.com/oqueue/

[zenga]

If Blizzard was not ok with addons like Preform AV Enabler, they would have broken them long ago. There is a blue post saying that premades are a-ok, but my google skills fail me today.

"This is not something that we are encouraging, but it is also something that we currently have no realistic way to prevent. That being said, this is something that may change soon, which is why we always advise people to not use any type of add-on designed to circumvent or bend our balancing safeguards... using such add-ons can lead to severe account penalties!"

That's the blue post. Yet again you avoid the fact that they put in a 5 player limit to queue up together, down from 10 man. Why on earth do you think they did that? They most likely could take out the ability for a raid leader to queue up individual players, but that would only be a temp fix. Because the business logic of the queue system just happens to put people who queue up at the same second in the same BG (more or less). That is not a feature, it's a way programmed to deal with things. And any addon that uses this is basically gaming the default intent. If they would disable preform AV, another addon would pop up sooner or later with a time provided by the raid leader: 'click on 10'. That's why they say they have no realistic way to prevent it at the moment.

Graveyard camping happens all the time in 10-15 mans when a 5 man group queues up (or one team happens to be terrible/undergeared). People seem to get along fine, even with all of the shenanigans of low level pvp.

There is a difference when you play a couple of minutes, get pwnd by the other team, eventually end up the gy and can't leave him anymore, ... with a full premade team who's sole intend it is to start gy camping from the first second. With a normal pug, you don't know how well your team is geared (only the people you queue up with), how good/bad the opponent team is; and typically you have no voice com. A premade have/know these things. It's easier to deal with the fact that the opposition is better, than dealing with opposition who game the normal queue limit and gets a coordination advantage (which is basically what you do with AV preform).

And it only gets worse for the 40 man bg's.

Intent is completely reliant on the players, not the developers. If all a player want to do is run around and pad kills, then they should be allowed to do so. The game wouldn't be much fun it it was "you must do x, y, and z in this order in order to experience the game." .

The devs have most definitely an intent with the rules, objectives & features they set for a bg. Because that is what they think will provide balance, fun & a good player experience. If it turns out that the outcome is totally different from the intent, but everyone is having 'fun' cq a good experience, there is no need to change things. If it turns out the other way, then they should (and will as seen in the past) change things.

So you're ok with premades, but you're not. I just don't understand how a multiboxer can be against premades when they ARE a premade. It just seems like a double standard to me, since you're ok with premades in one context, but not in another.

Yes it's a double standard, but based on the scale it happens. I find it fun to have someone in my raid who can absolutely trash talk (with humor) someone who fucks up on a boss for 30 seconds. But if he starts to do it all raid long it gets annoying and becomes counter-productive. The scale on which it happens is important. I don't think that an occasional premade has a big influence on the general player experience, but I'm convinced that developing a whole community around premades and mass forming premades results in bad player experience.

I really enjoyed doing a 25m premade to get AV perfection, it's great to experience that level of coordination. But I changed my mind overtime as I see the outcome. The only thing I can hope for is that they allow premades to queue up vs other premades, outside of rated play (that is for the 40 man maps).

[Ualaa]

Fun is subjective; what is fun for one might not be fun for another.
Blizzard has said repeatedly, almost anything you can do to the other faction is part of the war.
You really have to go to an extreme, for it to be considered griefing.

I cannot imagine it being that fun, to have your toons camped at a graveyard.
Then again, when you queue for arena and only run into 2-3 teams that are far above yours... and they repeatedly kill you, that's not fun either.

At the moment, the addon AV Preform works.
It has worked since pre-Burning Crusade.
If Blizzard really wanted to break it, they could.
It is a question of whether its worth the effort.
In rated battlegrounds, if you go against a team from your own faction, one of the two teams receives a temporary buff that they're actually the opposite faction.
If Blizzard was to put half the players queuing on each side, and not care what the pre-battleground faction was... that would be a premade breaker; they could even allow 5-man groups to queue.

[TamanXXX]

I Besides, what's the fucking point of gy camping right from the start ... a good battle where you actually have to play good is much more satisfying.

No game starts with graveyard camping, and in AV the team being camped has the most options to get out it. Even in a pug a little communication to regroup can change the outcome of the game. I've been in a position where our team was being camped in a pug and we still won when half the group decided to res elsewhere and and make a break for vann when all the alli where heading to the graveyard to get their share of the hk's.

I am personally all for blizz going the other way and allowing people to join raids for the larger bg's because I feel they are more about co-ordination than about gear.

[MiRai]

No game starts with graveyard camping, and in AV the team being camped has the most options to get out it. Even in a pug a little communication to regroup can change the outcome of the game. I've been in a position where our team was being camped in a pug and we still won when half the group decided to res elsewhere and and make a break for vann when all the alli where heading to the graveyard to get their share of the hk's.

That's exactly what happened to me a few weeks ago. It was hilarious and I would have loved to have been in their Vent/TS when that happened.

[valkry]

There is actually a blue post saying the opposite about the add-on assisted queueing:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...3390?page=5#94

However, I'll agree with this...

While graveyard camping can end up being lame if you're on the receiving end... at least in AV you can actually go to another graveyard and can never truly be camped unless your team controls no graveyards and you're stuck in the starting tunnel (although I highly doubt that would ever be the situation).

I've camped the starting tunnel before, was awesome fun. And you can GY camp even well geared teams. The headstart you get from dpsing as soon as they res is pretty hard to overcome and a 10 man team can be held by 8, while 2 run the flag

[Ualaa]

In the course of a battleground, it is not uncommon for one or two <insert vulgarity here> Rogue(s), to Sap one member of my team.

I've even had rogues who were afraid to engage the one toon I leave behind... as I run along, just watching the health of the sapped team member.
So if they do open, I can at least have a one-on-one with the rogue.
Instead of killing the abandoned toon, they continue to follow and sap/harass my team.

This can be extremely frustrating to deal with.
And is not really playing the game to pursue the objective (kill the other side in pvp to take something or to achieve the objective for the battleground)... it is instead, spending your entire time griefing (albeit legally, according to Blizzard) the other faction.
Things are not always going to be fair or nice in pvp, and this is one extremely annoying/unfair issue, that as a boxer I just have to live/deal with.

I have zero issues with returning the favor by graveyard camping the other side.
If a player decides it is no fun, and cannot deal with it... I don't really care if they quit battlegrounds or the game.
When you enter into PvP, the same as when I enter into PvP, the other side is going to take advantage of anything they can that will lead to their win.

[Destahd]

In the course of a battleground, it is not uncommon for one or two <insert vulgarity here> Rogue(s), to Sap one member of my team.

I've even had rogues who were afraid to engage the one toon I leave behind... as I run along, just watching the health of the sapped team member.
So if they do open, I can at least have a one-on-one with the rogue.
Instead of killing the abandoned toon, they continue to follow and sap/harass my team.

This almost belongs in a different thread altogether.

"How to annoy the crap out of boxers everywhere" would be the thread titlte.

I don't care about fears, I don't care about being graveyard camped.

But it annoys me to no end when a patient rogue just keeps sapping random members of my group.

[valkry]

This almost belongs in a different thread altogether.

"How to annoy the crap out of boxers everywhere" would be the thread titlte.

I don't care about fears, I don't care about being graveyard camped.

But it annoys me to no end when a patient rogue just keeps sapping random members of my group.

If this was made into a new thread, I would request daily for it to be locked and deleted. Would hate to have more then the current number of people doing this to me.

In other news, it's hard to do this to a hunter team, thank you flare and track hidden :P

[candlebox]

Haha D I had that happen to me back on Mag to my shams. Took me Forever to get up top. Would almost be worth just running ferals and stealthing up top.