MoP Beta - Group Composition viability (ongoing process)

[Shodokan]

Shok, you are free to talk about the comps you like But, I think that you should talk about how it's good as a group with X number of toons. IE: a group of 2 Ret and a DK is pretty similar to 4 Ret and a DK, except for the arena viability. So I would just talk about X class and X class working together, and not get caught up with the numbers. I have been talking about 5-10 in my lists, because thats what I find most people are running a 5 or 10 man group. But we want to hear what you think, you are one of the top arena players.

So am I talking about arena, bgs, should I add in my own areas to discuss those other than the current scale?

[Ualaa]

Most will five box, but many will four box.
And there are three/ten boxers out there.

It wouldn't hurt to list any composition, as that can be adapted to whatever size a given boxer wants to use.
I'd say go for it.

[Mokoi]

All I was saying, is that my focus is PvP. I don't realy care about PvE, and for this discussion, it is pretty irrellevant. X DPS is X DPS.. doesn't matter much if it's a hunter or a warlock. But a hunter and a warlock play totally differently in a BG or arena, so that's why an analysis is required.

Go ahead and asses your teams, in whatever composition you like. Just try and keep it simple:

"Ret Pallies and a DK". instead of "2 Ret Pallies and a DK" since the difference between 2 ret and 4 ret is insignificant for talking about in this thread. now, "1 Ret Pally and 4 DK" would be different, and warrant a new discussion

gogo analyze! (and keep it to MoP stuff)

[Fat Tire]

I think if your going to keep with the mop theme that analyzing the effects of the new aoe CC that everyone will have on muti boxing teams and how its going to effect them would be paramount. Aoe fear can mess up new boxers but most experienced boxers have gotten used to it and adjusted. However, when you throw in the new CC i.e aoe blinds/knockdowns most classes are getting and with dispels being 8 sec cd, seems like its going to be pretty rough.

[Shodokan]

I think if your going to keep with the mop theme that analyzing the the effects of the new aoe CC that everyone will have on muti boxing teams and how its going to effect them would be paramount. Aoe fear can mess up new boxers but most experienced boxers have gotten used to it and adjusted. However, when you throw in the new CC i.e aoe blinds/knockdowns most classes are getting and with dispels being 8 sec cd, seems like its going to be pretty rough.

Warriors - AOE throwdown that knocks back
This ability will be pretty stupid as even if you trinket it you will still be stuck in place for the duration. This can fuck melee comps pretty badly but you can still deal with it, if you die in 3 seconds (in 3's) something is wrong...in 5's though enough burst can kill you that fast (i do it all the time)

Paladins - AOE blind or throwdown
Refer to above, but blind can be broken just remember that.

Hunters - Glaive toss (slow)
Since we are in a line most of the time or clumped up glaive toss can do quite a bit of damage to us. Also slows.

Hunters - Binding shot (seriously, wtf)
Throws an arrow on the ground, if you go 10 yards away from it then you are stunned for 5 seconds.... Seriously? Forces you to stop chasing and allows for kiting.

Deathknights - Remorseless winter
AOE ability that will stun after 5 stacks for 6 seconds as well as slows. This can severely screw you over if you have no trinket since you are clumped together you can easily get the stacks put on your entire team and unless you kill the DK before the 5th stack.

Druids - Mass Entanglement
AOE root. Unless you are a paladin this can be a big deal. Entangling roots that spreads... enough said.

Druids - Disorienting Roar
3 second AOE blind, breaks on damage. I don't think this will be used much honestly

Druids - Ursol's Vortex
AOE targeted area slow that when you try to leave the area it pulls you back in. Basically this in 5's can be the death of you if they put it on you and kite away. Only way to deal with it seems to be death grip them INTO the vortex to do damage to them. Won't have any REAL impact on ranged classes IMO but it will still be annoying.

Mages - Ring of frost
30 second cooldown, same as it is now

Mages- Ice Ward
Someone gets this put on them, everything in 10 yards gets frozen in place. Basically another frost nova. Still stupid. 20 second cooldown.

Rogues - Paralytic Poison (Fan of knives)
You are stunned after 5 applications are put onto you. It can be an annoyance but rogues already stun so much we should be use to it by now.

Monk - Leg sweep (lol'd here)
5 second AOE stun/throwdown refer to warrior's just 2 seconds longer

Keep in mind that the AOE stuns and such will DR with normal stuns and disorients and such. So the impact there have are pretty great for classes with no secondary stuns because their cooldowns are longer than diminishing returns.

[Fat Tire]

Thanks shodo.

Also the cooldowns on some of those are pretty short 1min on the warrior one and 30 seconds on the druid one. I know DR but overall that is alot of new aoe CC.

Dont forget the warlock Rain of Fire which is fire and forget aoe stun after the second hit I believe.

[Shodokan]

Thanks shodo.

Also the cooldowns on some of those are pretty short 1min on the warrior one and 30 seconds on the druid one. I know DR but overall that is alot of new aoe CC.

Dont forget the warlock Rain of Fire which is fire and forget aoe stun after the second hit I believe.

I didn't see that, is that a new glyph?

[heyaz]

Warriors - AOE throwdown that knocks back
This ability will be pretty stupid as even if you trinket it you will still be stuck in place for the duration. This can fuck melee comps pretty badly but you can still deal with it, if you die in 3 seconds (in 3's) something is wrong...in 5's though enough burst can kill you that fast (i do it all the time)

Paladins - AOE blind or throwdown
Refer to above, but blind can be broken just remember that.

Hunters - Glaive toss (slow)
Since we are in a line most of the time or clumped up glaive toss can do quite a bit of damage to us. Also slows.

Hunters - Binding shot (seriously, wtf)
Throws an arrow on the ground, if you go 10 yards away from it then you are stunned for 5 seconds.... Seriously? Forces you to stop chasing and allows for kiting.

Deathknights - Remorseless winter
AOE ability that will stun after 5 stacks for 6 seconds as well as slows. This can severely screw you over if you have no trinket since you are clumped together you can easily get the stacks put on your entire team and unless you kill the DK before the 5th stack.

Druids - Mass Entanglement
AOE root. Unless you are a paladin this can be a big deal. Entangling roots that spreads... enough said.

Druids - Disorienting Roar
3 second AOE blind, breaks on damage. I don't think this will be used much honestly

Druids - Ursol's Vortex
AOE targeted area slow that when you try to leave the area it pulls you back in. Basically this in 5's can be the death of you if they put it on you and kite away. Only way to deal with it seems to be death grip them INTO the vortex to do damage to them. Won't have any REAL impact on ranged classes IMO but it will still be annoying.

Mages - Ring of frost
30 second cooldown, same as it is now

Mages- Ice Ward
Someone gets this put on them, everything in 10 yards gets frozen in place. Basically another frost nova. Still stupid. 20 second cooldown.

Rogues - Paralytic Poison (Fan of knives)
You are stunned after 5 applications are put onto you. It can be an annoyance but rogues already stun so much we should be use to it by now.

Monk - Leg sweep (lol'd here)
5 second AOE stun/throwdown refer to warrior's just 2 seconds longer

Keep in mind that the AOE stuns and such will DR with normal stuns and disorients and such. So the impact there have are pretty great for classes with no secondary stuns because their cooldowns are longer than diminishing returns.

These are terrifying for a multiboxer in arena. Far worse than the crap we dealt with in Wrath, like shadowfury, aoe fears, pet nova, fan of knives. These MoP aoe abilities sound like complete gamebreakers, and you're likely to face teams with two or more of these abilities to screw you with. I can't even imagine doing 5s against this.

[Fat Tire]

These are terrifying for a multiboxer in arena. Far worse than the crap we dealt with in Wrath, like shadowfury, aoe fears, pet nova, fan of knives. These MoP aoe abilities sound like complete gamebreakers, and you're likely to face teams with two or more of these abilities to screw you with. I can't even imagine doing 5s against this.

I agree with you. It seems to me that a majority of these changes were made for Rated BGs with very little thought around arena. Most of the talents that heal are also aoe/lowest hp heals.

[Shodokan]

These are terrifying for a multiboxer in arena. Far worse than the crap we dealt with in Wrath, like shadowfury, aoe fears, pet nova, fan of knives. These MoP aoe abilities sound like complete gamebreakers, and you're likely to face teams with two or more of these abilities to screw you with. I can't even imagine doing 5s against this.

Not many classes are getting MORE aoe cc than they had before. You are forgetting that so many of these baseline spec talents are going into the talent tree for all specs instead.

The only class i see getting even more AOE cc than they had before is warriors, druids and hunters. Mages only had ROF before as AOE CC... and paladins didn't even have AOE cc, but in 5's with dot cleaves AOE blind isn't going to do much.

Some of these choices are same tier as well IIRC.

Like right now you can have

Fire mage (dragon breath, nova, ring of frost)
Spriest/disc priest (aoe fear)
Warlock (AOE fear)
Druid/boomkin (no aoe, aoe silence)
Paladin/Shaman (no aoe)

So they gain...
Mage: Nothing
Spriest: Nothing
Warlock: Nothing (choose between aoe fear and aoe stun)
Druid: Gain aoe roots/knockback (use to be baseline for boomkin) and disorient (breaks on damage IIRC)/stall you from getting on them
Paladin: Gain aoe blind but thats useless for a dot cleave, so it would be a 3 second throwdown glyphed.
Shaman gains no AOE cc.


Warriors gain the most: AOE throwdown, AOE stun, and still have their AOE fear.

So i mean in general there isn't a whole lot new to the fight, maybe 2-3 seconds more of not fighting if that due to DRs, and deathknights and shaman can either get out of most of it or negate it completely with totem that absorbs it. Paladins can get themselves out of roots/slows etc... Not much is going to be effected really, sure there might be another clutch thing something can do. But we can make comps that abuse some of these abilities as well.

EX: AOE death grip > AOE stun > AOE throwdown > Single target split silences.