4 Boxing and story line

[IMTrick]

you kinda made my entire case with that, to box wow you need all that (macros etc) to box efficiantly, jamba, IWT etc and so on.

I really have to agree here. With ISBoxer it's just dirt-simple to multibox melee in TOR; far easier than I ever found it to be in WoW. My setup looks a lot like you described the only major difference being a follow command after the assist, and it just works. No macros, no add-ons... and honestly, there's not much I used macros for in WoW that I've found I really need.

I'm having a blast with it incidentally. But yeah, just wanted to throw my two cents in say this is probably about the most boxer-friendly game I've tried it on.

[Mercbeast]

you make a mapped key in isboxer, we call it E, to that key we map the follwing functions

step 1 - target char - follow char (we tell the game to target and follow what ever char is my main atm, yes with is boxer i have full FLT)
step 2 - assist char - (remember from follow we already have our "main" targeted
step 3 - press buttons 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 (now this is what i mean by saying the way swtor handles this input is hillarious and because of ability design)

Actually, step 3, wow works exactly the same way.

If I have ISboxer send 10 keys strokes all at once, the first input in the list is what WoW reads first. It is how I setup my DK DPS rotations and it worked 100% exactly the same way SWTOR currently does.

[Apatheist]

I agree with Merc. That's how I had my DK's set up, too.

SWTOR is not as easy to box as WoW was. It's not difficult by any means (though the setup is much more complicated). However, it doesn't have the ease of access that WoW has. IWT, addons like Jamba that automate quest dialogs, flight paths, etc. The SWTOR client is much less responsive than the WoW client, which makes click healing and target swapping (focus, target of target, etc) much more difficult. Lack of WoWs complex macro system is an obvious hinderance.

The thing SWTOR really has going for it is how low the player skill cap is. The game is much, much simpler to play well on a class level than WoW is. You have significantly fewer abilities to utilize, less complicated abilities, fewer cooldowns, vastly simpler rotations. An easier game means there's less difference between a boxed character and one that's being individually micromanaged.

I suppose it evens out. The game is easier but the client limitations make it less convenient.

[Mercbeast]

I agree with Merc. That's how I had my DK's set up, too.

SWTOR is not as easy to box as WoW was. It's not difficult by any means (though the setup is much more complicated). However, it doesn't have the ease of access that WoW has. IWT, addons like Jamba that automate quest dialogs, flight paths, etc. The SWTOR client is much less responsive than the WoW client, which makes click healing and target swapping (focus, target of target, etc) much more difficult. Lack of WoWs complex macro system is an obvious hinderance.

The thing SWTOR really has going for it is how low the player skill cap is. The game is much, much simpler to play well on a class level than WoW is. You have significantly fewer abilities to utilize, less complicated abilities, fewer cooldowns, vastly simpler rotations. An easier game means there's less difference between a boxed character and one that's being individually micromanaged.

I suppose it evens out. The game is easier but the client limitations make it less convenient.

This depends on the class you play.

Marauders/Sentinels require 30+ keybinds that they constantly use. Commandos/Mercs require like 3 for their DPS and only a few more that they will constantly use beyond that.

[Apatheist]

This depends on the class you play.

Marauders/Sentinels require 30+ keybinds that they constantly use. Commandos/Mercs require like 3 for their DPS and only a few more that they will constantly use beyond that.

The what? I'd be surprised if Sentinels even have 30 abilities if you combine all 3 talent trees and target hotkeys.

[Apps]

This depends on the class you play.

Marauders/Sentinels require 30+ keybinds that they constantly use. Commandos/Mercs require like 3 for their DPS and only a few more that they will constantly use beyond that.

Sorry, but that's just not right. I'm operating melee wars, and I definitely don't have that problem. And even if I had a ton of skills to use, I'd use ISBoxer to deliver dps rotations and other combo keybinds.

[Mercbeast]

Sorry, but that's just not right. I'm operating melee wars, and I definitely don't have that problem. And even if I had a ton of skills to use, I'd use ISBoxer to deliver dps rotations and other combo keybinds.

Actually it is right. Here is the proof. You can run rotations sure, but the vast majority are not running ISboxer. You can also tie everything together, that doesn't make it efficient. For your DPS rotation you will run 5 or 6 abilities together, the rest should be manually handled for optimal control and expenditure of rage. Even by macroing them together you are going to be extremely wasteful with rage. You don't need to drop a 5 point spender to do 5k on someone who has 500 hp left. Running a macro will do that.

Here is the list.

DPS

Smash *
Ravage *
Deadly Throw *
Sweeping Slash (focus/fury builder) *
Vicious Throw
Deadly Saber
Annhiliate
Battering Assault
Rupture
Vicious Slash
Force Scream *
Assault

Five of those should not be on a macro rotation, they are marked with an asterix. If you are playing well, you are using ALL of those abilities.

Utility Abilities

Force Charge
Predation
Berserk
Bloodthirst
Frenzy
Disruption
Crippling Slash
Unleash (CC break everyone has)
Force Choke

That is 9 abilities. None of those abilities should be linked. Frenzy can be linked to Bloodthirst, but it should be on seperate keybinds because Frenzy also needs to be free for Predation or Berserking on demand.

Defensive Cooldowns

Force Camoflage
Undying Rage
Cloak of Pain
Saber Ward
Obfuscate
Intimidating Roar

6 abilities. At most saber ward and cloak of pain can be linked. The rest no.

Universal items.
2x Relics
1x Adrenal
1x Health kit

4 more abilities. You should actually be running 5 hotkeys for this. One hotkey that is tied to Frenzy/Bloodthirst and all of your cooldowns, and then each cooldown independent of each other so you don't waste cool downs in situations you don't need to. Blowing a power adrenal to finish someone in a close fight is a better choice than blowing a relic and a power adrenal when you don't need to.

Total number of abilities/items that have to be used constantly, 31.

By running macro's this can be condensed to about 23 keybinds without getting extremely lazy and actually killing your overall effectiveness. Also, for non-boxing people not running a macro program, it is 30+ keybinds if they want to play an annihilation marauder at level 50.

[Lyonheart]

Actually it is right. Here is the proof. You can run rotations sure, but the vast majority are not running ISboxer. You can also tie everything together, that doesn't make it efficient. For your DPS rotation you will run 5 or 6 abilities together, the rest should be manually handled for optimal control and expenditure of rage. Even by macroing them together you are going to be extremely wasteful with rage. You don't need to drop a 5 point spender to do 5k on someone who has 500 hp left. Running a macro will do that.

Here is the list.

DPS

Smash *
Ravage *
Deadly Throw *
Sweeping Slash (focus/fury builder) *
Vicious Throw
Deadly Saber
Annhiliate
Battering Assault
Rupture
Vicious Slash
Force Scream *
Assault

Five of those should not be on a macro rotation, they are marked with an asterix. If you are playing well, you are using ALL of those abilities.

Utility Abilities

Force Charge
Predation
Berserk
Bloodthirst
Frenzy
Disruption
Crippling Slash
Unleash (CC break everyone has)
Force Choke

That is 9 abilities. None of those abilities should be linked. Frenzy can be linked to Bloodthirst, but it should be on seperate keybinds because Frenzy also needs to be free for Predation or Berserking on demand.

Defensive Cooldowns

Force Camoflage
Undying Rage
Cloak of Pain
Saber Ward
Obfuscate
Intimidating Roar

6 abilities. At most saber ward and cloak of pain can be linked. The rest no.

Universal items.
2x Relics
1x Adrenal
1x Health kit

4 more abilities. You should actually be running 5 hotkeys for this. One hotkey that is tied to Frenzy/Bloodthirst and all of your cooldowns, and then each cooldown independent of each other so you don't waste cool downs in situations you don't need to. Blowing a power adrenal to finish someone in a close fight is a better choice than blowing a relic and a power adrenal when you don't need to.

Total number of abilities/items that have to be used constantly, 31.

By running macro's this can be condensed to about 23 keybinds without getting extremely lazy and actually killing your overall effectiveness. Also, for non-boxing people not running a macro program, it is 30+ keybinds if they want to play an annihilation marauder at level 50.

HOLY SHIT!!! that's a lot of keybinds! My SWs are only 15 atm.. i started my jug+3 sorcs and love them! but yea.. this game has way too many abilities and not enough hotbars!!

[Bloodcloud]

.. this game has way too many abilities and not enough hotbars!!

^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said

[Apps]

Definitely not contending the number of skills / attacks the melee group has... but we may be talking two different types of fruit here.

I think perhaps im doing something different. I simply dont use everything. Not every fight uses skills anywhere near that number... and 95% of the time, while boxing, I rarely get to use everything, simply because stuff dies before I can get to all the different skills. Perhaps in PVE there might be a boss somewhere, where a player would need to use every skill they have.. dunno. I do have Slam in a macro with other abilities.. and I do also have Ravage in yet another DPS Spam.

PVP is a whole another story of course.

The point I was pushing was the comment about ".. they constantly use." I was saying that I have never constantly used all skills. Of course the total number of skills is significant, as is for all other classes.

And perhaps its also a factor of MBing a group, doing missions, world PvP, a lot of PvE Heroics... and very little FlashPoints. Doing that, I definitely never use more than 3-5 dps macro keys, with about 5 skills in each ~ 15 skills. Stuff is dead well before I need more.