That's a misleading quote. Elemental Shaman DPS is very competetive, it's only bottom currently because the majority of fights this tier involve some kind of cleave (either 2 bosses or lots of adds). It's the mechanics of this tiers encounters that are the problem, not their damage. Which is probably why Blizzard is giving them a spammable elemental.Originally Posted by zenga
Last edited by Meshuggenah : 06-28-2011 at 07:01 AM
Atm with full bloodthirsty gear and vicious weps my lightning bolts are hitting for 8 k on lvl 85 dummies, while my equal geared hunter with spammable arcane shots hit for 10-12 k. So dmg is fairly low from a PvP point of view
Yeah our lava burst hits for pathetic damage compared to other specs.
Everything that is fun in life is either bad for your health, immoral or illegal!
No my quote was spot on. Over all raid content ele shaman is at the very bottom of the dps specs. There is simply no way to deny that, as all numbers will prove you wrong; A good elemental is just competitive when there are multiple bosses active, for the simple fact he can dot up flame shocks and get thus more lava surge procs. But lets see:
Magmaw HC: 2 adds, not really 'cleave', rest of fight requires hardly movement
Maloriak HC: black adds are awesome for our new aoe rotation, other adds don't have enough health, hardly movement
Chimaron HC: hardly any movement involved
Atramedes HC: basic movement, but we always have something to cast
Defense system HC: single target fight, quite some movement
Nef HC: no multiple adds, hardly any movement involved, gimmic fight due to buff, pure rng if u get it or not
Conclave HC: depending on your role and tactic moving intensive or not, not multiple adds
Alakir HC: adds, but you can't cleave them, moving intensive
Halfus HC: adds that allow us to do better to cleave & multi dot - gimmick fight
V&T HC: no adds, 2 bosses, quite some movement
Council HC: way too much movement and prolly worst fight for ele
Cho'gall HC: adds, but rest of fight is pretty static
Sinestra: not really a cleave fight, again haste modifier
Bar council hard, we always have spells enough to cast while moving. There are not more cleave fights than stand alone fights. And moving will always be a part of encounter design.
Go to this site, and check the dps ranking from all logs available, and check on a boss per boss level, and you'll see that every time ele is near or at the bottom of dps specs.
On 8 heroic fights (25) I've scored a top 200 rank in world of logs as ele shaman in 4.1. And on none of them I was the top dps in my raid, often facing a large gap with others, who were at only 80% of scoring a ranked kill for their spec.
Everything that is fun in life is either bad for your health, immoral or illegal!
Back in Wrath I once had a very frustrated conversation about my ele.
"Me: At this point I just try to out dps anyone that's stupid enough to die and any shadow priests"
"Reply: Really? They are buffing shadow priests next patch"
*SHAMAN RETIRED*
Probably, I don't really PvP in WoW.
There are several Elemental Shamans in the top 200 damage done on 25H Chim (the only single target encounter in the entire tier that I can think of?). So, I'd say there is plenty of evidence that Elemental damage on single targets is competetive with other classes/specs. Flame shock on a couple of targets is not even in the same ballpark as double dotting Moonkins, Spriests, impact, DK cleave, Rogue cleave, Warrior cleave, hunter cleave . . . probably could have saved time and just said any other class in the game.
If you actually go through world of logs and look at the the damage split between targets on each fight, the single target damage done to focus targets (the boss) is competetive. The inflated numbers other classes get are, in most cases, caused by cleave. There's no way a Shaman of any spec can keep up with Rogue cleave on Heroic Magmaw, Warlocks on Maloriak, Mages on Halfus. It's just the way classes interact with cleave.
Last edited by Meshuggenah : 06-30-2011 at 08:21 AM
Top 200 parses are no evidence at all to prove the viability of a spec, because they are either the parses were rng was on your side, or they got dark intend / focus magic. They prove nothing. The only way that they are useful is to prove a spec is not viable: if you have #70 parse on fight A for your spec, and you are 6th on damage done in your raid, while others are nowhere near a ranked parse for their spec, it gives an indication.
The only viable data available are the simcraft results, which are theoretic numbers, and the collection of ALL world of logs parses, including the non ranked ones.
Like I said, on all single target encounters, ele shamans are near the bottom or at the bottom. It has nothing to do with cleave, since they are single target. I linked the data in question, so your claim that there is plenty of proof that ele is viable single target is simply crap (the more cause you use chimaeron, where there is a hit debuff). Maybe in your raid you are top single target, but that tells more about the others in your raid. (talking 4.1 btw). Just go to the site I linked and spend a few minutes browsing through the fights one by one, then come back and tell me again ele is competitive single target. Again, they contain ALL parses. And there are different ways to look at the data (all, medium, etc). They all give more or less the same result.
Everything that is fun in life is either bad for your health, immoral or illegal!
I would prefer the realistic data provided by actual in-game combat of the top 10% of players to a combined log full of randoms, personally. Or to a simcraft calculation based entirely on stats with no input from movement or environmental/encounter effects. Especially when that log lists arms above fury, BM hunters above all mage specs, frost spec mages more than 10k DPS behind other specs.. I can see a dozen flawed results by clicking all DPS from my knowledge of comparative DPS alone.
That site is simply wrong. I assume it's wrong because it includes input from the bottom 90% of raiders, where there are a lot of bads to skew the numbers (myself included).
Last edited by Meshuggenah : 07-01-2011 at 05:33 AM
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