4.2 PTR PVP Discussion

[daanji]

So what group do think would be most viable in 4.2?

Elemental shamans?
Enhancement shamans?
Ret paladins?

Other?

[remanz]

Ret went back to pre 4.0.6. It is not stronger. Just got WOG heals back and more cleave. It still has that 15 -20 second ramp up time on burst. (1st 3 HP to get Zealotry). So I would rank it the same as DKs.

Also when you consider teams, I think you have to separate 4 box and 5 box. If you play 4 where you focus mainly on offense, Elemental Shamans / Warriors (Yes Warriors) are my top picks.

If you box 5, DK + 4 Rets is my top pick. Enhance is althought very strong in offense, don't have a root breaker so it is a no go.

[zenga]

I'm still not too sure about the viability of ele shamans in 4.2 in pvp, definitely not when boxing. Blizzard tried to make up their weak defence by giving them a few new offensive abilities. That doesn't change the fact that we still die in a couple of globals. One rogue can easily kill 1 shamy on his own. That and the retarded lockout periods of your nature spells. Ghostwolf, thunderstorm, heals, ... are all nature based spells.

[Ualaa]

Even if Dark Succor changes, so its basically useless...
And Hungering Cold is given a cast time longer than our GCD... let's say it was subject to interrupts which locked out the Frost school even, so was not part of our rotation often.

All of which would suck...



The DK team still has a 30 yard range / 10 yard radius Howling Blast attack.
This is a cleaving attack, which applies Snare to anyone hit.
With Death/Frost Runes, we have four uses every 10 seconds, plus extra attacks as runes are restored by Frost Strikes.

We still have the option for Obliterate to focus fire a single target.
Not having Hungering Cold to CC the other targets would suck...
But this is still the option to focus-fire burst a kill target vs the cleaving attack that applies snare.

The team has defensive cooldowns, essentially for an opening which cannot be interrupted.
Death Grip is immunity to root, which most other compositions do not have.
Lichborne with Escape Artist, is a second trinket vs Fear/Charm/Sleep/Root.

The kill target is subject to Mind Freezes every 2.5 seconds.
We can Strangulate (4x Round-Robin on 1x Healer or 2x Round-Robin on 2x Healers).
Dark Sim can make a really hurting opponent hesitant to give our DK's a very powerful defensive effect.

I'd think the Healer + 4x Frost DK's is still a top team.

[zenga]

I'd think the Healer + 4x Frost DK's is still a top team.

This. It's just less overpowered now, it's no longer the A-team with rocky, rambo, schwarznegger and mcgyver, but it's still an A-team that is hard to counter.

[remanz]

well DKs will be right up there still. But how fast do stuff die these days. Full reslienced target with 4 dps beating on it. If it takes longer than the anti magic shell duration (which is like 5 not glphyed), then it is not looking too good. Not to mention you might not have 4 dps beating on it, DKs don't have a fear breaker once feared. So if you trinket the ring of frost, eating a full duration fear means game over.

[Mosg2]

I think the Healer+4 DK's is still your best bet for a 5's team, though Healer+4 Warriors and DK+4 Rets are close. The problem with the Warriors and Rets is that you don't have any defensive immunities that really destroy people. With the DK's you can Deathgrip while you have IBF, Lichborne and AMS up--Which makes you basically immune to every CC (except disarm) for 7-12 seconds. It's enough time to force a kill if you splash blanket Strangulate their team.

The Warriors will Charge-->Recklesness-->Brostorm. The damage from 4x Warriors would be insane--The problem is that once Brostorm is on cooldown you're much more easily kited and CC'd than the DK's or the Rets.

The Rets do take that ramp-up time before they're doing maximum DPS but being able to remove snares/roots from yourself is pretty amazing. If Wings makes it off the PTR being undispellable and not spell stealable... Yeah, they'll probably be worth it, especially with 10 sec WoG.

I think the problem with the Shaman team is still mana/survivability. Blizz really pushed for all of the caster DPS specs to not be able to offheal at all basically. That neuters the Shaman imo~.

Edit: @remanz: Lichborne is 12 seconds of fear immunity and can be used once feared.

[remanz]

My bad, forgot about that. LB is the answer.

DK has as many defensive CD as it gets. I really want a stun / knock down to keep my target there. and Warriors should have the best burst. Also it can shatter bubble or iceblock. So charge => deadly calm => knock down => reckenless => bladestorm. If you go immue, I can shatter you. With the way HP, Damage and Heals work, I don't see any healers can heal back damage very quickly. Once you are low, it takes time to bring your HP back. So the shattering throw might be just what we need to kill it.

I've seen and played DKs and Rets at their primes. They are both viable and good. But neither have answer to immunities, bubble / bop/ iceblock etc. I am going for warriors this time.

[zenga]

My bad, forgot about that. LB is the answer.

DK has as many defensive CD as it gets. I really want a stun / knock down to keep my target there. and Warriors should have the best burst. Also it can shatter bubble or iceblock. So charge => deadly calm => knock down => reckenless => bladestorm. If you go immue, I can shatter you. With the way HP, Damage and Heals work, I don't see any healers can heal back damage very quickly. Once you are low, it takes time to bring your HP back. So the shattering throw might be just what we need to kill it.

I've seen and played DKs and Rets at their primes. They are both viable and good. But neither have answer to immunities, bubble / bop/ iceblock etc. I am going for warriors this time.

warrior team sounds interesting, i'm just afraid that 1 frost mage can totally lock the team out
maybe one of the options is to get 1 dk who can deathgrip

[Toned]

4.2 I'm prob going to swap out a DK for a war so 3dk war + heals