I Fear for our non boxing Shaman Friends - 2.4

[Ðeceased]

Well what can I say..
as a future 5 ele shaman boxer this patch has brought some interesting buffs first of course was the nerf that will never be (NS + EM).. do you see what blizz did there? they nerf it and then unnerf it before its released and everyone is happier then before :wacko: then of course the totem GCD is going to help alot!! I know 0.5 secs aint close enough to what it should be but gaining that amount of time in any fight is a blessing..

the new buff to FT won't affect me much to be honest as I aim to be bringing down my opponents before their healer can react properly.

But it's those shamans who play in normal arena teams that are going to suffer from this buff.. the flametongue totem mainly.
I've already read hundreds of whineposts on warrior forums etc claiming how this is the end of the warrior class in pvp as everyone will take shammies.. *sigh* that's the silliest thing I think I've ever heard..
but what so few ppl seem to realise is that this buff will make shamans of all specs have an even harder time in pvp then they did before.. effectively shamans are going to become primary targets as the opposing team will try to take them down as quickly as poss to avoid having to fight teams with MS debuffs everywhere.

sure shamans may become more sought after by arena teams.. but I get the feeling blizz is ignoring shamans playability as a class

anyways, just thought I'd throw in my two pennies (no cents here - yet ^^)

[Eteocles]

Unfortunately the arena whores will never be happy; they're spoiled little brats who don't have to do shit for gear comparable to stuff you have to work with 24 people for months to get and without having to worry about fairness since everyone gets points whereas raid gear is limited and usually costs dkp. BUt yeah, fuck arenas ;p

Warriors should be HAPPY...MS + flametongue stack = OHSHITNOHEALZ4ULOL, I know I'd fear it

[Ðeceased]

hehe I know what you mean
I'll be using arena to grab some welfare epics when i get to 70 ^^ and IF I get any good at Arena, I'll be doing it simply for fun and titles.. there is an element to arena beyond gear which I enjoy and I'm sure that is why ppl like ellay do arena so much (ellay is already completely kitted out in PvP gear), because of the challenge involved in beating other high ranked arena teams.. But gear aside being on a pvp server I expect to be able to stand my own as a shaman when in a 1v1 scenario and I just feel Blizz is failing to address many of the shaman community's concerns, and infact making many aspects of the game harder for them. Regardless of wherether we prefer PvE or PvP, a class should be able to perform in both equally well, which unfortunately it doesn't. this Ft totem is just another nail in the coffin of nonboxing Shamans

[elo]

Unfortunately the arena whores will never be happy; they're spoiled little brats who don't have to do shit for gear comparable to stuff you have to work with 24 people for months to get and without having to worry about fairness since everyone gets points whereas raid gear is limited and usually costs dkp. BUt yeah, fuck arenas ;p

Warriors should be HAPPY...MS + flametongue stack = OHSHITNOHEALZ4ULOL, I know I'd fear it

Amen man. I'm so f'ing tired of having my perfectly good PvE game getting jacked up by them trying to balance PvP. They'll never find a balance that people are happy with. Hell, Counter-strike had a hard enough time balancing T's and CT's. How the hell do you balance 9 classes, 10 races, and an incredible range of gear? Ppl wanna PvP, fine. But keep the mechanics completely out of my sh*t.

[elo]

balancing the entire game around PvP = Welfare epics = casual players are happy = more renewed subscriptions

A year ago everyone was bitching that only the hardcore raiders got the purples (less than 10% of the WoW population). Blizzard obviously listend and make changes accordingly.

Now everyone is bitching they're are too many epics and the game is being ruined by the pvp balancing effecting the pve game

People need to think about the long term effects of QQ'ing.

Ummmm no. Welfare PvP epics only = PvP casual players are happy. Yes, some of the PvP epics are nice to have for PvE but for the most part the stats are all wrong for PvE.

The only people that would be griping about too many epics would be the old 10% but they've still got a pretty exclusive lock on Hyjal and BT. Making epics and the higher end raids POSSIBLE for people with families and careers is still a good thing and doing THAT = more renewed subscriptions.

The PvP balancing affecting the PvE game is in the game mechanics they change in order to do so, not the rewards. To me the rewards seem quite balanced between PvP and PvE re: karazhan and badge loot. It was a little out of whack but with 2.3 they added good PvE badge loot and now the balance feels better.

I work with several people that had quit their 70's after a few months of SSC and TK raids. When I told them about the new loot and new 5 man in 2.4 they were interested in reactivating their accounts. A couple already have.

The other unseen part of this is that Blizz is apparently burning a lot of time on this PvP stuff and not delivering on new PvE content. We're about to get one new 5 man (yay! but only 1?!?) and a new 25 man (presumably for the 8% currently doing BT) and we're over due for the next expansion with no hint of when we'll see that.

All in all though TBC > v.1, and if Karazhan, heroics, and appropriate loot for time spent (without raiding) is the result of the QQ, then keep it up! I don't mind so much that the 8% are the only ones to get the really uber loot, so long as I've got some way to progress myself between expansions. I really think they should recycle the untouchable raid content at each expansion. Turn it into a few 5 man heroics with appropriate gear so that us sad sap casual gamers that only spend 20-30 hours a week playing can actually enjoy the content long after the raiders are done with it. I mean, they put all of that work into Naxx and BWL, it's sad that such a small percentage of their player base got to do anything with it. But meh, that's there deal, they can waste their efforts if they want. Just give the other 92% of us enough content to get us through expansions. Hell even the raiders are on their 2nd and 3rd fully epic geared alts and largely... they're bored.

[simpletom]

Warriors should be HAPPY...MS + flametongue stack = OHSHITNOHEALZ4ULOL, I know I'd fear it

is this true, ive not seen any patch notes on it, and tbh i cant see this happening

shaman drops flametongue totem and warriors start putting up the 100% no heals for you debuff,

i know the debuff only lasts five seconds but seriously this would be such bad news for anything the warrior is focusing on just constantly refreshing it

[Hippieman]

Unfortunately the arena whores will never be happy; they're spoiled little brats who don't have to do shit for gear comparable to stuff you have to work with 24 people for months to get and without having to worry about fairness since everyone gets points whereas raid gear is limited and usually costs dkp. BUt yeah, fuck arenas ;p

Warriors should be HAPPY...MS + flametongue stack = OHSHITNOHEALZ4ULOL, I know I'd fear it

1. I'm happy.
2. I'm not spoiled.
3. I've worked countless hours for my gear and I'm proud of it (we need enchants, gems and shit aswell, as you may've noticed)
4. Sure, you're 25 people, but that doesn't mean you've worked any harder for anything that I have.
5. MS and the new flametongue-"MS"-effect won't stack, otherwise it wouldn't be a balance-note.

Sure, PVE getting nurfed because they're trying to balance PVP isn't phun stuff, but it's how it is. Don't blame the PVPers, blame blizz.

[Stealthy]

Unfortunately the arena whores will never be happy; they're spoiled little brats who don't have to do shit for gear comparable to stuff you have to work with 24 people for months to get and without having to worry about fairness since everyone gets points whereas raid gear is limited and usually costs dkp. BUt yeah, fuck arenas ;p

Warriors should be HAPPY...MS + flametongue stack = OHSHITNOHEALZ4ULOL, I know I'd fear it

Seriously man - have you done any arena's lately? 'Cuz the comments aov make it sound like you are another PVE kid QQ'ing about PvP gear. Arena gear isn't just handed out - you have to work to get it, just like PvE. The only people who get arena gear fast are those who exploit the system buy buying points. Guess what - exploiting happens in PvE as well. Ever heard of selling raid spots for loot drops once a boss is on farm? How about selling your raid ID to another guild who are still progressing or can't get past a certain boss? Yep it happens.

People that run arena's without exploiting are looking at months to gear their toons up - how is this different from PvE? Now that raid bosses drop tokens which can be redeemed for loot, the loot distribution for raids depends a lot less on luck and more on how your guild divides up the tokens. If it's still taking you so much longer to get PvE gear, then the problem is your guild and not Blizz.

PvE gear has progressed (Kara PUG's anyone?) so why shouldn't PvP gear progress as well.

Cheers,

Stealthy

[Skuggomann]

Im 99% sure the flamtoung shits only for shammys to make them usefull in arenas.





my reson for beleavign this: think about a shaman +3 warriors + megahealer XD or just 3 rouges r sum.

[Boom]

The Flame Tongue buff WAS both on the version that was applied by Shammies to their own weapons, AND Flame Tongue Totem, which applied the SAME effect to everyone else in range. This would mean two significant things..

1. Every Arena team would want a Shaman, despite our spec.
2. Fury Warriors would finally be viable in serious Arena fights.


HOWEVER... this morning, the Flame Tongue buff was reversed. There will be no Flame Tongue Heal Debuff anymore.

Boom