I got spoiled, the only guild I tried raiding with had two loot rules. Master loot all bosses, so there's never a mistake or ninja. and If you can use it, you can roll on it. Which at the time and my noobishness, I wouldn't have been able to roll on gorefiend as a hunter, as str isn't a primary stat. After it's farm status if you want something, better to have happy guildmates than a bank of enchant mats, and it was pretty loose. This way any pug that we needed had as good a chance as a regular attendee. Hey, everyone worked to clear it, everyone earned a shot at the loot. They decided if you needed to whine about 30 runs and not getting a drop and then losing it when it did drop, you probably didn't fit with the guild. And, while it was new to me, I really came to like it, and for a while I was MT'ing ZG. Whether I got the upgrade or another war/class, it made next raid a little bit easier.