Just a note for those who use Debit cards.

[F9thRet]

I know I'd be pretty pissed. We don't use credit cards, everything comes directly from out bank account via debit. And those are not just groceries and gas, that's also big ticket items like new computer builds, a new car, a new entertainment system, workout machines... we don't believe in buying things we don't have the money for.

It's our money, we should have the right to use it however and whenever we want.

I couldn't agree more. I'm the ultimate pay cash or do without guy. I even bought our home and land with cash, that I had saved.

Stephen

[Ualaa]

Not sure Canada would follow suit.

Currently, all of the major banks allow $500 in debit purchases or ATM withdrawals per day.
There are two kinds of Canadian banks:
a) One type can deal with the public or corporations, and needs to have a minimum of 100+ (not sure on the exact number, but it was in the three digit range) branches across the country.
b) One type that can only deal with corporations, and are not limited on minimum number of branches.
None of the Canadian banks were threatened with bankruptcy during this recent recession, because most are enormous corporate organizations; plus the recession was lighter in Canada than any other G8 country.

Of course there are Credit Unions that can do their own thing, and most cities or provinces have their own version; Vancity (Vancouver) or Alberta Treasury Branch, being the two I've dealt with.
Credit Unions aren't limited to a minimum number of branches either, and can deal with whoever buys membership stock (which you do when you open an account there).

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I wonder how many people are going to put up with the bank limiting their debit card usage? I can see the other banks standing pat and watching Chase's customers come to them in droves.

See, this is the part that Barney Frank, Bernanke, little Timmy and the rest don't understand: LET the big banks jack rates up to crazy levels. More small banks will offer drastically reduced rates and customers will move to the better competitor. Now, if the complaint is that the big banks are locking out the charge technology from being used by anyone that won't set the same prices they demand, then that's pretty clear-cut collusion and price-fixing.

There's an insidious side to all this that distorts how the whole system works. That is, when the government can be relied upon to step in and slap down the people who deviate from the "normal" flow of business, companies tend to start to depend on that, which artificially inflates or deflates that market. If the government would have stayed out of things from the beginning, the market itself would have corrected the abnormal overcharges by competition undercutting them and taking market share. But people are afraid to make those investments when the government shows a propensity to step in and fuck things up for everyone else. I'm probably not explaining it very well but basically, government-knows-best intervention scares creative adaptation out of the markets -- so you might not see the big negatives anymore but you also don't see the huge, risk-taking successes, either.

[F9thRet]

I have to agree with Ugh here. The more someone tries to regulate, the more the consumer and the free market looses.

now don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about regulations like, don't drink this acid plastered on a bottle, I'm talking about when they try and influence business, instead of letting the consumers direct said business.

Stephen

[Svpernova09]

I never *ever* used "debit". If I could have the functionality removed from my card I would, but my bank tells me it's not possible. I always use the "credit" option. Not because I'm delusional and thinking the money won't come out of my bank account, but because transactions that are debit type are not governed by the same rules as credit cards. Your bank *has* to follow Visa/Mastercard's rules if the transaction is done as "credit". If the transaction is done as "debit", any issues about the transaction is governed by the bank's rules. I'd rather have Visa governing my transactions than my local bank, Visa has more to lose via public outcry. I can initiate a charge back on *any* transaction I do, some/most banks won't let you even try to contest a debit charge unless you can prove it's due to theft / loss of PIN.

I'm also overly paranoid of swiping devices, I always try to see if I can pull the device off the reader (to see if someone has added something to a device to skim the mag stripe) But hey, you gotta watch out for yourself. Retailers don't give a shit.

[pinotnoir]

Just when consumers get some protection from excessive fees by the banking industry they figure out another way to stick it to us. I saw this story last week. Anything to further the Oligarchy of America I guess. Don't get me started with politics and the income disparity in this country.

[Duane]

I used my debit for years but I've got a nice no annual fee rewards credit card that I pay off every month. You'd be surprised how much those points add up at the end of the year if you pay utilities, phone, groceries, etc... with the rewards card. However this does require that you can have financial restraint and not spend more than your budget because you don't see an immediate impact on your checking account.

[F9thRet]

@SvperNova09 , I have a good friend, whos job for his company is nothing but CC security. You are right to look for those swipe machines, just based on the horror stories I have heard from him. I'll try and find it, and PM you a link to the conversation we had, But he has pictures of what a large number of the Devices look like , next to the ones that are legit.

@ Duane, that is a pretty good way to do , But like you said, you have to be very prudish with your spending habits.

Stephen

[Kang]

By reducing the fees they charge retailers, they are making it so you have to swipe your card more than once to make up for it.

Multiple transactions from the same retailer in quick succession get flagged for fraud. So if what you suggest is their intent, they will get a huge influx of fraud reports.

Time to brush the dust off the old check book.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

[edit] Damnit, wrong quote.

I used my debit for years but I've got a nice no annual fee rewards credit card that I pay off every month. You'd be surprised how much those points add up at the end of the year if you pay utilities, phone, groceries, etc... with the rewards card. However this does require that you can have financial restraint and not spend more than your budget because you don't see an immediate impact on your checking account.

Agreed. I had spending issues on mine when I was younger but it works well nowadays. And I have a better "paper trail" than I did with checking for the most part.

I never *ever* used "debit". If I could have the functionality removed from my card I would, but my bank tells me it's not possible. I always use the "credit" option. Not because I'm delusional and thinking the money won't come out of my bank account, but because transactions that are debit type are not governed by the same rules as credit cards. Your bank *has* to follow Visa/Mastercard's rules if the transaction is done as "credit". If the transaction is done as "debit", any issues about the transaction is governed by the bank's rules. I'd rather have Visa governing my transactions than my local bank, Visa has more to lose via public outcry. I can initiate a charge back on *any* transaction I do, some/most banks won't let you even try to contest a debit charge unless you can prove it's due to theft / loss of PIN.

Exactly. The CC rules are effectively "innocent until proven guilty unless we detect a pattern of abuse," where banks/debits are "fuck you, prove it." Obvious caveat about all banks not being equal applies.