Mosg2's DK Manifesto

[Shodokan]

If you were to stop using HB, other than as a ranged snare, with the 12%+ to 2h DPS it seems to me like playing 4 DK's + a pocket healer will be pretty effective with you having the ability to use hungering cold on a more proper rotation.

Watching for runes on all toons to make sure you can effectively use obliterate isn't going to be possible really, unless you make a priority rotation like

Obliterate > Howling > Frost strike > Necrotic Strike

But even then you need to worry about howling and necrotic using the runes for oblit... which WILL happen way too often. So in order to do that you'd need to play the dks like you would manually. Theres no way we can use things like "dont use howling blast if we have killing machine up" type statements in macros.

So what would you use the extra frost runes on? make them sit there? Ssing oblit also makes it so you are NOT using necrotic and maximizing the usefulness of the stacking of buffs. Obliterate on plate targets is a really bad choice as it gets double mitigation through plate armor and resil.

[Mercbeast]

Watching for runes on all toons to make sure you can effectively use obliterate isn't going to be possible really, unless you make a priority rotation like

Obliterate > Howling > Frost strike > Necrotic Strike

But even then you need to worry about howling and necrotic using the runes for oblit... which WILL happen way too often. So in order to do that you'd need to play the dks like you would manually. Theres no way we can use things like "dont use howling blast if we have killing machine up" type statements in macros.

So what would you use the extra frost runes on? make them sit there? Ssing oblit also makes it so you are NOT using necrotic and maximizing the usefulness of the stacking of buffs. Obliterate on plate targets is a really bad choice as it gets double mitigation through plate armor and resil.

It would depend on the DPS feasibility of an Oblit rotation versus the regular rotation. I would have HB off the priority, I already have this key bound. Use it specifically for snaring. I would also take NS off the rotation.

Well actually I will quickly explain my setup.

I use R as my DPS spam. I use Shift-R as my PVE DPS spam (no IWT). I use T as my HB, I use shift T for nothing currently. I would change shift R to my oblit rotation, and set shift-T as my necrotic strike.

I now have on demand NS or HB via T and Shift-T. I also have my IWT HB/NS/FS/BS spam with R, and with Shift-R I have my oblit/bs/FS IWT spam.

I don't think it is a bad idea to set up your keys in a similar fashion anyways. Gives you more control over what you are doing with NS and HB, it also gives you the flexibility to switch between single target sniping with controlled round robin hungery colds, but also aoe pressure from the HB spam.

I can see an opener being something like this. Open with your HB+blood tap spam until all runes are on cooldown, making sure you get a big fat NS stack on the target. Then you hit empower rune weapon, hit your first hungering cold, and switch to your single target oblit/bs/fs rotation. Pop a second hungering cold the instant you see people start trinketing out.

You've come out of the gate and thrown down heavy pressure on the other team even when taking into considering the HB nerf on the PTR, figure close to 200k damage dealt via HB aoe(dependent on how many people you hit with it)

I think if someone becomes proficient with this sort of setup, this is going to take you higher than the the current HB spam zerg fest we currently do. This is because incorporating 4x well timed hungering colds gives us something we don't have normally. Control. You give us this sort of control and you pressure any dispeller you are going to lock down any melee constantly cutting their DPS down dramatically.

[Kromtor]

fat tire isn't trying to be mean he's just being realistic. we can't stress enough - you won't understand how correct he is about 5's until you're in the last month stretch of the season dealing with the highly social nature of the tiny, tiny (even smaller now thanks to rated BGs) pool of top end teams in the 5's division. the 2400 club. it's a queue dodging, wintrading, friend farming extravaganza based far more on scouting and availability to play when appropriate than your team strength.

i'm impressed though that you haven't even had the chance to use your priest yet - it will be very interesting to see how that helps you (or hurts you due to the fact that he's behind in gear and catching up is going to be hell). you might even end up wanting to play him shadow, it's super powerful in 5's right now.

[Mercbeast]

fat tire isn't trying to be mean he's just being realistic. we can't stress enough - you won't understand how correct he is about 5's until you're in the last month stretch of the season dealing with the highly social nature of the tiny, tiny (even smaller now thanks to rated BGs) pool of top end teams in the 5's division. the 2400 club. it's a queue dodging, wintrading, friend farming extravaganza based far more on scouting and availability to play when appropriate than your team strength.

i'm impressed though that you haven't even had the chance to use your priest yet - it will be very interesting to see how that helps you (or hurts you due to the fact that he's behind in gear and catching up is going to be hell). you might even end up wanting to play him shadow, it's super powerful in 5's right now.

So what you're saying is, most of these teams will have two teams. The primary team and the dummy team. They get both up to a high rating with a similar MMR rating. Then teams from this community will arrange to play each other where the dummy team and a primary team queue at the same time. If they don't both get the arena at the same time they leave the queue and try again? This allows the primary team zero risk wins against other high ranked teams. They then return the favor for the other group?

[Kromtor]

they dont necessarily need a second team of their own in the queue to find out who else is queuing, just using scouts on the servers of specific teams that they dont match up well against to make sure they aren't queue'ing works but this is just one tactic. i've never been in a normal 5's team so i dont know everything that is done, but i know they definitely cooperate with other teams to take turns pushing the other team over 2200 to get access to the better gear earlier. i've been offered gold by other 5's teams to let them beat me. i'm not angry at these people, i dont think they're evil. the fault lies with blizzard by not properly incentivizing 5's.. when the queue's get empty it opens the door for arranged matches and that sorta crap.

i also like your idea of making better use of hungering cold. CC is still the name of the game and breaking our own CC when not necessary needs to be minimized as much as possible. i play friggin undead DK's with licheborne and trinkets and in long matches (which i have many) fear bombs are still one of the biggest pains in my ass. i can't stop whining

[Shodokan]

It would depend on the DPS feasibility of an Oblit rotation versus the regular rotation. I would have HB off the priority, I already have this key bound. Use it specifically for snaring. I would also take NS off the rotation.

Well actually I will quickly explain my setup.

I use R as my DPS spam. I use Shift-R as my PVE DPS spam (no IWT). I use T as my HB, I use shift T for nothing currently. I would change shift R to my oblit rotation, and set shift-T as my necrotic strike.

I now have on demand NS or HB via T and Shift-T. I also have my IWT HB/NS/FS/BS spam with R, and with Shift-R I have my oblit/bs/FS IWT spam.

I don't think it is a bad idea to set up your keys in a similar fashion anyways. Gives you more control over what you are doing with NS and HB, it also gives you the flexibility to switch between single target sniping with controlled round robin hungery colds, but also aoe pressure from the HB spam.

I can see an opener being something like this. Open with your HB+blood tap spam until all runes are on cooldown, making sure you get a big fat NS stack on the target. Then you hit empower rune weapon, hit your first hungering cold, and switch to your single target oblit/bs/fs rotation. Pop a second hungering cold the instant you see people start trinketing out.

You've come out of the gate and thrown down heavy pressure on the other team even when taking into considering the HB nerf on the PTR, figure close to 200k damage dealt via HB aoe(dependent on how many people you hit with it)

I think if someone becomes proficient with this sort of setup, this is going to take you higher than the the current HB spam zerg fest we currently do. This is because incorporating 4x well timed hungering colds gives us something we don't have normally. Control. You give us this sort of control and you pressure any dispeller you are going to lock down any melee constantly cutting their DPS down dramatically.

I'm using crap weapon and crafted pvp set and my oblits crit for 13k (1 talent point, no glyph both diseases up) and for 23k with talents (HUGE difference). Now after 40% reduction you get 13.8k or so per obliterate crit and for 6k non crit. Your string of 3 oblits in PVP per dk is equal between 18 and 41k . This puts your total damage from the string of oblits at between 72 and 164k damage. Scaling with gear and weapons i'd say this goes up to about 180k ish max with 90k minimum. So yes this damage is enough to kill someone if you get at least 1/2 crits putting your damage at around 120k (not including white attacks or frost strikes)

A rotation of obliterates will kill someone with higher ranged weapons than what i have, but after that initial kill you need to make sure you can get back on the offensive, because a kill is worthless if your entire team is vulnerable for 20 seconds after the fact. Not to mention that obliterate requires both diseases up as pressure meaning you can't just use an oblit macro/priroity system you need to watch your disease timers. This just isn't possible to do effectively without a dedicated healer that you can concentrate on all that shit. I am 99% sure that you need your own diseases up in order to make oblit hit harder, so yea.

[Mosg2]

With the way Runic Empowerment works for Frost I don't think you're going to get a satisfactory single-target rotation with Obliterate. Unholy opens up a lot of options because their Runic Empowerment isn't random. I intend to try out some different DPS sequences today at some point and see.

@Kromtor:
Vis a vis Fat Tire I'm referring to his Kool Aid post and then the one where he admits he just wanted to come shit on the DK's.

@All:
The team is in its infancy. There are a lot of people who've been 2k+ in arenas multiboxing that are playing this team now. I think that without a doubt the DK's are more viable as an arena team than any other melee variety due to defensive cooldowns and their ability to stay on target.

[Fat Tire]

@Kromtor:
Vis a vis Fat Tire I'm referring to his Kool Aid post and then the one where he admits he just wanted to come shit on the DK's.

I called all the theorycrafting gladiators out. I am not the one who said they would/could get gladiator(legit). Everyone who thinks they can is drinkin their own kool aid, for the simple fact that is doesnt matter how good of a muti boxer you are and my proof was in my earlier post. I also gave props to all who arena 5s- guess you missed that, I am not hatin on what is a very good thread.

I will revisit this thread at the end of the season.

[Mercbeast]

I called all the theorycrafting gladiators out. I am not the one who said they would/could get gladiator(legit). Everyone who thinks they can is drinkin their own kool aid, for the simple fact that is doesnt matter how good of a muti boxer you are and my proof was in my earlier post. I also gave props to all who arena 5s- guess you missed that, I am not hatin on what is a very good thread.

I will revisit this thread at the end of the season.

I'm pretty sure, there isn't a single person in this thread who said 2200+ rating would be likely or even possible with this group.

Stop being butthurt. You're looking like a giant douchebag.

[Fat Tire]

I'm pretty sure, there isn't a single person in this thread who said 2200+ rating would be likely or even possible with this group.

Stop being butthurt. You're looking like a giant douchebag.

Reading comprehension is a talent you lack. Back up and re read a couple pages back.

If I am a giant douchebag, then youve got to be a fucken idiot. See what I did there.