Mosg2's DK Manifesto

[Mosg2]

@HB damage nerf:
Yes, you lose splash damage. Yes, this means you'll probably be going for other stats than mastery. You know what? Who cares. My single-target DPS is *insane*. The fact that overall it's going UP means I have even less need of target swapping and making use of the damage from HB.

We now are basically immune to CC for the first 7-10 seconds of a match. You can't be feared, rooted, polymorphed, horror'd or snared. You can be disarmed, that's it. With the single-target DPS we have this means at least one person is just going to melt.

Buck up everyone These changes are great for us overall!

[Ualaa]

HB is still a long range, large area of effect, snare/debuff.

It hasn't even changed yet, but will hit the primary target as hard as ever.
So our ability to down the primary target won't change much, if at all.
Especially with the 12% increase to damage with a two-hander.

The loss of Bloodlust/Heroism or the equivalent for the opposition makes a lot of teams easier.
And the Frost Circle nerf, makes the most annoying caster a lot easier too.

[Kromtor]

any nerf to aoe damage - even to frost DK's is a buff to melee boxed teams. i've been getting hit with 12-14k dps (in an arena thats insane) frost DK's due to HB's craziness and can't spread out to avoid it like a normal team. the 12% damage bonus for 2 handers is substantial.

that being said after testing it myself I think you're overestimating the power of this comp, mosg2. it may feel powerful compared to previous seasons, however, you have to remember that if you enter a 5's season early and prepared it's pretty easy to initially do well. i was #1 on my BG with a 90% win ratio in the first few weeks but that slowed down quickly as the pro 5's teams started throwing their hats in after first gearing up in the more populated 2's and 3's divisions. this 5's season is in it's infancy stages and i predict we won't see any top teams running just 1 healer without uber CC.

[Shodokan]

any nerf to aoe damage - even to frost DK's is a buff to melee boxed teams. i've been getting hit with 12-14k dps (in an arena thats insane) frost DK's due to HB's craziness and can't spread out to avoid it like a normal team. the 12% damage bonus for 2 handers is substantial.

that being said after testing it myself I think you're overestimating the power of this comp, mosg2. it may feel powerful compared to previous seasons, however, you have to remember that if you enter a 5's season early and prepared it's pretty easy to initially do well. i was #1 on my BG with a 90% win ratio in the first few weeks but that slowed down quickly as the pro 5's teams started throwing their hats in after first gearing up in the more populated 2's and 3's divisions. this 5's season is in it's infancy stages and i predict we won't see any top teams running just 1 healer without uber CC.

Depends on your battlegroup. If you were on emberstorm you'd have been top 2 for sure.

WE may be overestimating the team, but paladins are certainly no better, and nor are ferals. You'd have to play a multi-class team to get everything to function the way you want like zug did and that requires a 2nd person for healing. But this team is extremely powerful, especially fully geared. Also you have to realize, you are the ONLY person to be truly successful with the dk/ret team, and blizzard is not going to keep resil the way it is i don't think, it will get nerfed like it happened to you mid season before either.

The whole point is to have fun. I honestly think that getting glad on any boxing team in 5's is nearly impossible playing by yourself, but as you are the only person to get to 2500+ with your team i guess you'd be the person to take advice from in that regard.

[Mosg2]

If the IBF changes go live then the DK team has 7 seconds once they charge in where they are immune to every form of CC in the game. I can burn a 3k+ resilience target to the ground in that amount of time, even through healing.

I never expected this team to be able to get Gladiator solo before Cata hit--After playing them geared at 85 though I'm positive that it's doable.

[Kromtor]

If the IBF changes go live then the DK team has 7 seconds once they charge in where they are immune to every form of CC in the game. I can burn a 3k+ resilience target to the ground in that amount of time, even through healing.

I never expected this team to be able to get Gladiator solo before Cata hit--After playing them geared at 85 though I'm positive that it's doable.

i do still have my pally goggles on. when they pop a defensive cooldown i have to change targets whereas with a priest you don't. 7 seconds doesnt seem like long when you're switching targets. i also am not geared properly at all - but i've tried to take these things into consideration when making my assessment. i definitely want to see a solo boxer get gladiator so let's hope i'm wrong.

[remanz]

Not to be negative in this, but how to reach gladiator with a 50-60% winning ratio. What Kromtor did with DK + 4rets is as closed as it gets as I see it.

So we go 50-50 in most of the matches. That is no where near gladiator. Heck I'd be jumping up and down if we can reach 2200.

If your MMR and your real ratings meet at 1800, I think that's it. You are likely to get 100-200 more. You are not going higher than 2000.


basically, you won't all of sudden one day start winning more than you do now.

[remanz]

When you look at melee zerg boxing really, is there a lot of rooms for improvement on the execution ? I see we got the execution down pretty well. But it is capped.

and put it into a ratings perspective, I see it capped around 2k ratings. That is NOT bad in any sense. But that is what we have to work with. I can't imagine all those 2200 teams just suddenly forget how to play and let us zerg them down.

I say this from experience. I've played enough melee zerging. When I lose a match to a good team, I ask "is there anything I can improve on ? " and frankly, most of the cases, there is nothing I can think of. I did the best possible. The weakness of melee boxing just cannot be overcome if your opponents know them.

[Fat Tire]

When you look at melee zerg boxing really, is there a lot of rooms for improvement on the execution ? I see we got the execution down pretty well. But it is capped.

and put it into a ratings perspective, I see it capped around 2k ratings. That is NOT bad in any sense. But that is what we have to work with. I can't imagine all those 2200 teams just suddenly forget how to play and let us zerg them down.

I say this from experience. I've played enough melee zerging. When I lose a match to a good team, I ask "is there anything I can improve on ? " and frankly, most of the cases, there is nothing I can think of. I did the best possible. The weakness of melee boxing just cannot be overcome if your opponents know them.

Even then-

Anyone who has played with the mindless children who care about rank 1 and to a lesser degree gladiator know that there is a high school popular cool kids mentality among the good arena players.

They snipe,dogde, wintrade, level alt teams, tank mmr to friends while their mains already have glad. In my opinion no muti boxer, no matter how good will ever get glad in 5s. 5v5 is such a small pool of teams that it just wont ever happen, even on BL which is not even the highest/best/most populated BG anymore. Most all the cool kids went horde/illidan/rampage when cata came out.

If you could even get into glad range every counter would snipe you. You would have lvl 1 watchers on your server to see when you were playing the second you were in glad range towards the end of the season. They would queue and you would lose points. If you tried to sit on your rating, they would wintrade/dump mmr to their friends team and farm you when you tried to play.

I could see it in 3s just for the fact that there is a larger pool, but I think even that is almost impossible playing all by yourself.

You could pull a krush and get glad solo on each of your characters and then log them all on at the same time. huzza

With all that said, I give mad props to all the 5s boxers who play arena. Arena =/= BGs. I say if you are able to get to 2200 for the weapons, that in itself, no matter how accomplished is something to be proud of in this stupid game.

[Ualaa]

Still, the fulcrum is 2200.

Playing all five toons, by yourself.
You're not that far away from superior gear.

Would a separate healer push this team over the edge?