Window Management with 3+ clients

[kenphillips]

Hello Gang,

I recently started playing EVE again, being lured back by their latest marketing email for former players coupled with the fact that I've given up on WoW for the time being also. Since I was 4-boxing WoW, I decided I'd try and box EVE with my 2 accounts like before, hoping there was a bit more support developed during my time away (I left during Apochrypha). Alas, there isn't but I did finally get EVE Launcher to work correctly which I couldn't do last time 'round.

Anywho, let's get to the reason for this post. In scouring these and other forums, blogs, etc., it seems that all the window management tools we use have a negative effect on the cursor in EVE; EVE Launcher being the exception to this and possibly EVE Mover as well. This then limits us to 1 client per monitor. I can deal with that for now, but I do plan on adding another toon to the mix and I'm building a gaming PC so I can free up other PCs for other uses. I liked the way Keyclone could make a client very small and/or do PiP as well as removing the border.

Is there any way I can have 3 clients running on 1(2) monitor(s) with no borders and full mouse functionality? Yes, I want to eat my cake!

I've already tried this using Keyclone but the mouse get skewed and frame-rate takes a huge hit. I've also read about this happening when using HotKeyNet (mouse problems and no border-removal). I haven't tried ISBoxer/InnerSpace yet for a couple reasons. One being I could lose my accounts and another being the recurring fee. Looking forward to your thought on this.

[MiRai]

I haven't tried ISBoxer/InnerSpace yet for a couple reasons. One being I could lose my accounts and another being the recurring fee. Looking forward to your thought on this.

Please elaborate on the underlined section.

[kenphillips]

As you wish,

If you scour this set of forums, you will discover that EVE GMs do not like people using InnerSpace beacuse of the key/mouse broadcasting feature. EVE GMs have no problem with M-boxers and multiple accounts administered by one person. But, they want you to manually direct each client one-at-a-time. Taking advantage of key/mouse broadcasting violates the EVE EULA/ToS. This is specifically stated in these forums. I've also read on here that there's a botting program which uses InnerSpace. I know EVE has a very liberal policy of non-interference with their virtual players but I've also read of members on this site getting suspensions for boxing using some form of broadcasting. To me, doing something that may get your accounts suspended, and continuing to do that something after the suspension is setting yourself up for a perma-ban.

Having said that, I'm not opposed to using InnerSpace to achieve my cake, but only if there's no other way. I could still play with 2 PCs after I get my gaming system built, which would give me more options than just InnerSpace, but I'd rather play with one safely.

[MiRai]

As you wish,

If you scour this set of forums, you will discover that EVE GMs do not like people using InnerSpace beacuse of the key/mouse broadcasting feature. EVE GMs have no problem with M-boxers and multiple accounts administered by one person. But, they want you to manually direct each client one-at-a-time. Taking advantage of key/mouse broadcasting violates the EVE EULA/ToS. This is specifically stated in these forums. I've also read on here that there's a botting program which uses InnerSpace. I know EVE has a very liberal policy of non-interference with their virtual players but I've also read of members on this site getting suspensions for boxing using some form of broadcasting. To me, doing something that may get your accounts suspended, and continuing to do that something after the suspension is setting yourself up for a perma-ban.

Having said that, I'm not opposed to using InnerSpace to achieve my cake, but only if there's no other way. I could still play with 2 PCs after I get my gaming system built, which would give me more options than just InnerSpace, but I'd rather play with one safely.

I guess I will leave it up to the people of this forum who box EVE with InnerSpace to speak for what they've done and
seen with the program itself. I will mention, however, that I've idled in the ISBoxer IRC chat room everyday, all day, for close
to a year now [possibly longer] and not a single person has ever, ever, come in there mentioning being banned on any
game they've used InnerSpace with.

If you have anything recent stating that mouse broadcasting isn't allowed, then please post it [including the TOS]; as the
most recent thing I have seen is this.

[kenphillips]

Huh, dunno how I missed that section of the thread. I'm glad you pointed that out to me. At least I can now consider using InnerSpace a little more, but is it my only option?

[MiRai]

Huh, dunno how I missed that section of the thread. I'm glad you pointed that out to me. At least I can now consider using InnerSpace a little more, but is it my only option?

Not 100% sure, I have not played EVE myself, but I would assume the only other software choice that would currently
come close to ISBoxer would be HKN. You did, however, mention those issues in your first post while trying out HKN. Again,
I do not play EVE so I cannot guarantee ISBoxer working 100% perfect at the very moment with EVE. The only reason I
say that is because within the last few months I've seen a few people come in the IRC channel with mouse broadcasting
issues [no real bugs, just the mouse broadcasting]. I haven't seen those issues in awhile so I would like to say it has been
fixed. Feel free to wait for another real EVE multiboxer to respond to this thread besides myself, it could take a few days
though as EVE multiboxers don't frequent these boards nearly as much as the ever-so-quickly-changing WoW [as I'm sure
you can see from the thread dates]. In the end, glad I could shed some light on everything.

[Mukade]

HKN has no problems with removing the borders from EVE windows or scaling them to fit a full screen at the same resolution as the EVE window, at which point there are no longer any mouse issues, and broadcasting works fine.

If there are any problems with mouse broadcasting on windows scaled below 100%, then HKN has options to change the scaling of the mouse movements.

Broadcasting is permitted in EVE, as a senior GM made clear, by saying "programs designed for multiboxing in mind which allow a player to manually issue the same command to multiple game clients at the same time are allowed."

RTFM. The commands you are looking for are:

RemoveWinFrame
SetWinRect
ClickMouse

[kenphillips]

After the above (where broadcasting is now legal in EVE), I finally looked into ISBoxer briefly, and what I found was disappointing. ISBoxer/InnerSpace works the same as EVE Launcher/EVE Mover in terms of wIndow size and mouse functionality. Essentially 1 EVE client per screen or mouse issues. And their EVE section is even smaller than this forum

Here's the strange thing tho. I did the math, and using the lowest resolution setting in EVE (1024x786); you'd need a monitor that supports a resolution of 2048x1536 (QXGA or 1536p) to run multiple clients (4) with no mouse issues...theoretically. And what's stranger is how rare it is to find an LCD that supports this resolution. Price ranges I saw were in the $4,000 - $6,000 USD neighborhood.

And what's even stranger? Remember that boxing-god, Zhek Kromtor, running 14 EVE clients with the dowel/screw setup and taped-together mice? If you look at those pics, he's got 2 clients per monitor with no reported mouse issues. Wonder how he did that? I'll start looking at HKN more now, since it looks like it might be the only solution. When I can tear myself away from the game, of course. Thanks and I appreciate all the posts given.

[Ualaa]

HKN is a good solution, if you want to go with it.
IS Boxer is more powerful and flexible, if you think it is worth the subscription vs HKN being free.



As far as the Window Layout...

There's the size that each of the regions is rendered at, which is the game resolution.
This can be whatever you want, subject to what your system can handle.

Then there is the physical window size, on your monitor.
I have five regions, each rendered at 1680x1050, but four fit across the bottom of my 2560x1600 monitor.
With a larger region along the top, which warcraft thinks is also 1680x1050 even though it stretches across the full 2560 width.

The size the windows are rendered at, is not the size they are displayed at within your Window Layout.

[kenphillips]

Ualaa,

I was running a similar setup with Keyclone+Synergy for WoW. 3 Clients on one monitor (my slaves). That monitor has a max resolution of 1280x1024. It worked in WoW with no mouse problems. But it doesn't work in EVE!

From what I've learned, and please someone correct me if I'm mistaken, window management in EVE requires that the client and managed window have the same resolution (minimum res 1024x768) to have correct mouse functionality. With EVE Launcher, EVE Mover, and EVEMon, this means one client per monitor as that's the max these tools support. According to what I saw on the ISBoxer/InnerSpace site, InnerSpace works the same way.

I'm looking for a tool that will allow me to run multiple EVE clients on my 1280x1024 monitor where I can see the entierty of each client with no border and have correct mouse functionality on all clients.