Cataclysm: The Ret Paladin- AKA Multi-Box Burst PVP Machines.

[Kromtor]

that's no WoG spam but it's decent healing. i definitely wouldnt write the group off... in fact i kinda wanna level my feral team. i've got a war + 4 enhancement team taht just hit 85 but with the crap quest gear im not exactly having an easy time having any arena victories. 0 so far.

[remanz]

I have 1 enhance in my group. I took him for the bloodlust. Single target wise, it doesn't do more than the 1 frost DK i had. But still plenty more than my ret pallies.

[BrothelMeister]

I have 1 enhance in my group. I took him for the bloodlust. Single target wise, it doesn't do more than the 1 frost DK i had. But still plenty more than my ret pallies.

Well ret paladin dps is going up, purge is getting nerfed, and bloodlust is going away. Time to break that ret pally back out.

[remanz]

That.

I have to agree. Damn you blizzard! Unlike mage, shaman is near worthless without bloodlust.

[remanz]

Crusader strike = 135% base damage + 35% damage talented + 20% holy damage (base mastery) + (.2 * .3) inquisition = ~ 225% weapon damage

Templars verdict = 235% + 35% damage talented + 15% (glyphed) + 20% holy damage (base mastery) + (.2 * .3) inquisition= ~ 445% weapon damage

That is quite a bit of damage.

Wait, why is inquisition modifier in there ? I thought those 2 are physical. Even if it can be applied, it should be only to that 20% holy damage * 0.2, not the entire damage %

[remanz]

I played ret extensivly through PVP (BG, arena), and also in 10man PVE raid.

1. If you took heal talent, and you spend holy power to heal. You will do half dps as what you can be. So 12k dps becomes 6k if you heal.

2. You need/have to manage inquisition to do onpar damage. exorcism (this might be 2nd biggest damaging spell for ret), hammer of wrath, judgement, holy wrath, seal damage are all holy. If you don't manage inquisition, Retribution paladin damage will be low (-20 , 30%). In PVE, Inquisition needs to be on all the time. In PVP, inqusition needs to be on before exorcism and hammer of wrath.

3. Rets are no longer the frontal burst class as we know. They need about 5-7 seconds ramp up time to get the first 3 holy power. Then use Zealotry to burst.

4. Using Templar's Verdict with less than 3 Holy power. Your dps will suffer quite a bit. So with hand of light proc and different paladins get 3 holy power at different times, it is best for you to wait then use TV all together.

5. As for PVP, retribution does not counter frost mage. Removing root/snare is only half of the answer. The other half is to have a 10k per tick bleed on the mage, and Rets don't have that. Rets are kited the moment you touch the mage, if you keep cleansing, you will never have enough damage on the mage.

Retribution cannot go toe to toe against any melee. The burst is just not that high. It has some burst in the middle of the fight. But not as high as warrior/dk/feral, and rogue's defensive CD just too much to handle.


All in all, Retribution is no longer a faceroll class. Can't just mash 1 button and expect people to drop dead (sounds more like dks' drop right now). You have to manage your skill CD + rotations to achieve normal damage.

Retribution is currently the bottom melee for damage in pvp, middle for damage in pve. With the upcoming buff, Rets will come back, as the hand of light proc nonesense is gone. It should beat warrior in PVE damage. and It should not be too far behind in pvp as CS and TV damage increased.

[BrothelMeister]

I never use inquisition, I save the holy power for healing, except when I pop zealotry and have a lot of excess points., then I use TV as well

[remanz]

well the question is, is your 3k reslience target dropping in arena ? If I pop wings without inquisition, he is not dropping.

Obviously talking about normal players that knows how to use defensive CDs.

[remanz]

Not confirmed whether as a bug or as a nerf yet.

but Hammer of wrath is hitting 50% less on PTR than on live now. Probably related to the CS, TV mastery buff for + 20% holy damage.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...47970?page=1#2

So TV, CS + 20% , and HOW - 50%. This is not good for PVP boxing as Hammer of Wrath is the major burst for Retribution PVP.

The net change for PVE damage on PTR is probably still higher than on live now. So Retribution gets more constant higher damage output.

a nerf to burst.

[Mosg2]

Remanz, how do you feel about having toons that can Cleanse/Freedom themselves? It seems to me playing my DK's that the most important part of a melee boxed team is time on target--Even if they have no burst as long as you're running a 4 dps setup it's all about having your guys on target. On live now I get decent time up on target with 4x Death Grip and the group snare via Howling Blast but a good team will just Freedom/Lifegrip/HoP/whatever my target and force me to swap--Losing DPS in the meantime and giving them more time to CC me.

I think once this PTR gets pushed to live it's going to be no contest--DK's with Death's Advance will have the best mobility of any melee class. My Rets still call to me though--The buffs to Rets on the PTR seem real nice and make them easier to box... And Cleanse/Freedomx4 is something I miss dearly.