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  1. #1

    Default MASSIVE changes incoming to ALL talent trees!

    SRC: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...Id=25626290449

    When we first announced our design goals for class talent trees back at BlizzCon 2009, one of our major stated focuses was to remove some of the boring and "mandatory" passive talents. We mentioned that we wanted talent choices to feel more flavorful and fun, yet more meaningful at the same time. Recently, we had our fansites release information on work-in-progress talent tree previews for druids, priests, shaman, and rogues. From those previews and via alpha test feedback, a primary response we heard was that these trees didn’t incorporate the original design goals discussed at BlizzCon. This response echoes something we have been feeling internally for some time, namely that the talent tree system has not aged well since we first increased the level cap beyond level 60. In an upcoming beta build, we will unveil bold overhauls of all 30 talent trees.

    Talent Tree Vision

    One of the basic tenets of Blizzard game design is that of “concentrated coolness.” We’d rather have a simpler design with a lot of depth, than a complicated but shallow design. The goal for Cataclysm remains to remove a lot of the passive (or lame) talents, but we don’t think that’s possible with the current tree size. To resolve this, we're reducing each tree to 31-point talents. With this reduction in tree size we need to make sure they're being purchased along a similar leveling curve, and therefore will also be reducing the number of total talent points and the speed at which they're awarded during the leveling process.

    As a result, we can keep the unique talents in each tree, particularly those which provide new spells, abilities or mechanics. We’ll still have room for extra flavorful talents and room for player customization, but we can trim a great deal of fat from each tree. The idea isn’t to give players fewer choices, but to make those choices feel more meaningful. Your rotations won’t change and you won’t lose any cool talents. What will change are all of the filler talents you had to pick up to get to the next fun talent, as well as most talents that required 5 of your hard-earned points.

    We are also taking a hard look at many of the mandatory PvP talents, such as spell pushback or mechanic duration reductions. While there will always be PvP vs. PvE builds, we’d like for the difference to be less extreme, so that players don’t feel like they necessarily need to spend their second talent specialization on a PvP build.

    The Rise of Specialization

    We want to focus the talent trees towards your chosen style of gameplay right away. That first point you spend in a tree should be very meaningful. If you choose Enhancement, we want you to feel like an Enhancement shaman right away, not thirty talent points later. When talent trees are unlocked at level 10, you will be asked to choose your specialization (e.g. whether you want to be an Arms, Fury or Protection warrior) before spending that first point. Making this choice comes with certain benefits, including whatever passive bonuses you need to be effective in that role, and a signature ability that used to be buried deeper in the talent trees. These abilities and bonuses are only available by specializing in a specific tree. Each tree awards its own unique active ability and passives when chosen. The passive bonuses range from flat percentage increases, like a 20% increase to Fire damage for Fire mages or spell range increases for casters, to more interesting passives such as the passive rage regeneration of the former Anger Management talent for Arms warriors, Dual-Wield Specialization for Fury warriors and Combat rogues, or the ability to dual-wield itself for Enhancement shaman.

    The initial talent tree selection unlocks active abilities that are core to the chosen role. Our goal is to choose abilities that let the specializations come into their own much earlier than was possible when a specialization-defining talent had to be buried deep enough that other talent trees couldn’t access them. For example, having Lava Lash and Dual-Wield right away lets an Enhancement shaman feel like an Enhancement shaman. Other role-defining examples of abilities players can now get for free at level 10 include Mortal Strike, Bloodthirst, Shield Slam, Mutilate, Shadow Step, Thunderstorm, Earth Shield, Water Elemental, and Penance.

    Getting Down to the Grit

    Talent trees will have around 20 unique talents instead of today's (roughly) 30 talents, and aesthetically will look a bit more like the original World of Warcraft talent trees. The 31-point talents will generally be the same as the 51-point talents we already had planned for Cataclysm. A lot of the boring or extremely specialized talents have been removed, but we don't want to remove anything that’s going to affect spell/ability rotations. We want to keep overall damage, healing, and survivability roughly the same while providing a lot of the passive bonuses for free based on your specialization choice.

    While leveling, you will get 1 talent point about every 2 levels (41 points total at level 85). Our goal is to alternate between gaining a new class spell or ability and gaining a talent point with each level. As another significant change, you will not be able to put points into a different talent tree until you have dedicated 31 talent points to your primary specialization. While leveling, this will be possible at 70. Picking a talent specialization should feel important. To that end, we want to make sure new players understand the significance of reaching the bottom of their specialization tree before gaining the option of spending points in the other trees. We intend to make sure dual-specialization and re-talenting function exactly as they do today so players do not feel locked into their specialization choice.

    A True Mastery

    The original passive Mastery bonuses players were to receive according to how they spent points in each tree are being replaced by the automatic passive bonuses earned when a tree specialization is chosen. These passives are flat percentages and we no longer intend for them to scale with the number of talent points spent. The Mastery bonus that was unique to each tree will now be derived from the Mastery stat, found on high-level items, and Mastery will be a passive skill learned from class trainers around level 75. In most cases, the Mastery stats will be the same as the tree-unique bonuses we announced earlier this year. These stats can be improved by stacking Mastery Rating found on high-level items.

    To Recap

    When players reach level 10, they are presented with basic information on the three specializations within their class and are asked to choose one. Then they spend their talent point. The other trees darken and are unavailable until 31 points are spent in the chosen tree. The character is awarded an active ability, and one or more passive bonuses unique to the tree they've chosen. As they gain levels, they'll alternate between receiving a talent point and gaining new skills. They'll have a 31-point tree to work down, with each talent being more integral and exciting than they have been in the past. Once they spend their 31'st point in the final talent (at level 70), the other trees open up and become available to allocate points into from then on. As characters move into the level 78+ areas in Cataclysm, they'll begin seeing items with a new stat, Mastery. Once they learn the Mastery skill from their class trainer they'll receive bonuses from the stat based on the tree they've specialized in.

    We understand that these are significant changes and we still have details to solidify. We feel, however, that these changes better fulfill our original class design goals for Cataclysm, and we're confident that they will make for a better gameplay experience. Your constructive feedback is welcomed and appreciated.

  2. #2

    Default

    Wow... is it April 1?

    F*ck... I had such an awesome team going that I'm sure was going to be the MB FOTM once peeps realized the strength. Now all I can do is wait and see if the game is going to be worthwhile...

    Things are going to be really out of balance with this big of a change.
    Owltoid, Thatblueguy, Thisblueguy, Otherblueguy, Whichblueguy

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehmuffinman View Post
    As another significant change, you will not be able to put points into a different talent tree until you have dedicated 31 talent points to your primary specialization. While leveling, this will be possible at 70. Picking a talent specialization should feel important. To that end, we want to make sure new players understand the significance of reaching the bottom of their specialization tree before gaining the option of spending points in the other trees. We intend to make sure dual-specialization and re-talenting function exactly as they do today so players do not feel locked into their specialization choice.
    Huh?

    At level 80 do I have to get a 31 point talent in a tree if I want to move on, or is that something that goes away at 70?

    It's really f*cking retarded if they're forcing everyone to be cookie cutter.
    Owltoid, Thatblueguy, Thisblueguy, Otherblueguy, Whichblueguy

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Owltoid View Post
    Things are going to be really out of balance with this big of a change.
    Not necessarily... this could do the opposite and make things much MORE balanced and much EASIER to balance in the future.

    One of the biggest obstacles to balance in the game was the sheer volume of talents... this change along with restricting points to a certain tree until 31 pts have been spent will allow for smoother and easier balancing.,

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Owltoid View Post
    Huh?

    At level 80 do I have to get a 31 point talent in a tree if I want to move on, or is that something that goes away at 70?

    It's really f*cking retarded if they're forcing everyone to be cookie cutter.
    When you pick a specialization at lvl 10, you have to spent 31 pts in that tree before you can spend points in any other tree.

    You reach the 31pt mark at lvl 70.

  6. #6

    Default

    This kind of sounds like their mastery system/path of the titans from what I remember however Version 2...

    It could be a very good change, simplify the trees make it less "I need 43.2 points here and then 12.4 here to be exactly perfect!" ...

    To soon to tell...

  7. #7

    Default

    This has taken the wind out of my sails more than any other Blizzard announcement, ever.

    I loved being able to have flexibility. It's my favorite part of the game. If we're stuck in a cookie cutter build, then it's boring.

    I know there's a lot of this going on, but this could definitely lead me to packing my WoW bags for good. Toon customization was the most fun part of the game for me, and if I look like every other toon because I am locked into a tree until I get 31 points, then I'll call it a day.

    Who knows, maybe they'll surprise me once some more info is released, but once I read this all motivation to level my new team stopped.
    Owltoid, Thatblueguy, Thisblueguy, Otherblueguy, Whichblueguy

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Owltoid View Post
    This has taken the wind out of my sails more than any other Blizzard announcement, ever.

    I loved being able to have flexibility. It's my favorite part of the game. If we're stuck in a cookie cutter build, then it's boring.

    I know there's a lot of this going on, but this could definitely lead me to packing my WoW bags for good. Toon customization was the most fun part of the game for me, and if I look like every other toon because I am locked into a tree until I get 31 points, then I'll call it a day.

    Who knows, maybe they'll surprise me once some more info is released, but once I read this all motivation to level my new team stopped.
    How is this sticking you in a cookie cutter build? I don't see that at ALL.

  9. #9

    Default

    This is actually the opposite of cookie cutter...
    Right now everyone is cookie cutter which is what they don't like.

    If you are a tank you need to have X talent with Y points and Z talent with Y points.....If you don't have this joo suxxors!


    They want to make it so it's, You are a tank, 1st point here's some cool bonuses just for deciding to be a tank, and the rest more useable/fun and less required talents...
    This in a way opens up more to play with in the tree if the passive bonus gives you some of the "required" things...

    This is also what they have wanted for awhile...I remember talk about that with the last dev team "Make talents more fun" etc..


    Edit

    Also....how are you not locked into a talent tree NOW for 41-51 points?

    All the "Good stuff" is at the bottom in many cases especially while leveling...
    What they propose is to make it so you get that cool ability within the first few talent points. So inevitably if they reduce the number of talents given per level and the max in a tree you'll see almost no difference for amount of time locked into a tree....
    Last edited by Drizhal : 07-07-2010 at 01:34 PM Reason: The edit

  10. #10

    Default

    Clearly simplifies things. Kinda gonna hurt those who run 2 specs without going deep into one tree. Well I only have one guy that dosnt have the 51 point spec and thats my priest, so won't make much difference to me.

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bEhbh0...dqV0h0z:VR0cMz

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