But this could argueably make it better for that type of toon by consolidating all the "Good" talents into less talents so you get more per point.Originally Posted by Sam DeathWalker
Plus they want to keep dual spec etc, win win so far...unless the talents come out completely f-ed up I think it'll be great.
I don't understand your guys logic at all. How is this not cookie cutter?! You are forced to be in only one tree for the vast majority of your points! There are no more hybrid specs, or playing around.
Yes, there will always only be one optimal tree for any particular situation. Theory crafting often provides that and it will for the new system. However, by forcing you into one tree, and in fact never allowing more than two trees), they are much more cookie cutter than ever before.
Who knows, maybe when the trees are released things will look much different and there will be so much variation within a tree that it's not cookie cutter, but the fact that you have to get the 31 point talent tells me otherwise. No more moonkin/healer combos since you can no longer forgo starfall to get some nice resto abilities. No more holy/disc priest combo since you're forced into penance (obviously I don't know if any of this is true, but we're all speculating with the info we have).
Owltoid, Thatblueguy, Thisblueguy, Otherblueguy, Whichblueguy
Interesting. Personally I feel as playing a raiding prot paladin that I have far too many abilities as it is. The only thing missing from my spell book is holy shock, divine storm, and crusader strike. By level 10 you should have your base utility spells like cleanse, crowd control, and buffs. And I hope they make you need them unlike the current game where you don't need to dis-spell till end game raid. (nothing like getting to 80 and having to learn what half your spell book does).
After level 10 when you pick your roll, then what you earn should be much more specific. Boomchickens should not have 5 different healing spells. An arcane mage should not have blizzard, Frost Nova, Blast Wave and Pyroblast.
I do not agree with locking out the other 2 talent trees until you max out one first. This to me says lazy because all they have to do is make something 11 points deep into those trees to make them unavailable. This also will make less unique talent builds. Things will be more cookie cutter in my opinion. If I want to put 13 points into each tree then I should be able to or do a 20/21/0 build, then that should be my choice.
Overall, the biggest surprise is this type of change so late in the development stage.
I think this will be a huge change for the good. It is not any more cookie cutter than it is now. I think this will greatly benefit the game as a whole. Every primary spec will feel more like there role from level 10 on... it will be much easier to balance groups now.
Teál
Still Working on my Team
True in some class cases it will take away that oddball spec...and yes it is cookie cutter but more to my points is as the guy 2 above said....
No more cookie cutter then it is now.
Locking you into specializing is not that big of a deal, in fact for being a class oriented talent selecting game WoW is amazingly versatile and it really won't change when you change numbers, as the guy above said.. Boomchickens have 5 different heals or so and so do ferals for that matter kinda crazy overall.
Since I tend to finish out most trees 31 point req to branch off and specialization is not that big of a deal to me. I forsee inceases at finishing out a tree and synergy with another "mastery".
All in all what are you losing in this case if they consolidate 51 talents into 31? Not much...just the illusion of control you had before simply because there were more numbers and I could randomly decide to do a 3 tree spec? Eh not that big of a deal really
On another note though I remember during LK release everyone complained that not all their 51 talents were clickables and this was something the devs were suggesting even then to take away that feeling of "every 21, 31, 41, 51 talent needs to be a clickable"
My panties are in a bunch over your guys viewpoints... Someone on the internetz is wrong!
You can like the new system, you can think these are great change, but I don't see how you think this isn't more cookie cutter.
Where were we forced to pick one tree in the past? How can having LESS options not lead to more uniformity? Again, I don't care if anyone says cookie cutter is the best way to go or simplification is ideal, but I truly don't understand how anyone can argue this isn't at least slightly more cookie cutter than the current system.
Owltoid, Thatblueguy, Thisblueguy, Otherblueguy, Whichblueguy
Because while you may not feel forced into a certain talent spec there are many many other players that feel they have to go X/51/X or some other combination where to feel like you have done something in your tree you have to be level...70ish or hit the 41/51 talent point mark in one tree
Allowing more consolidation among the talents and giving your abilities to you front loaded will make you feel less rammed into a spec. They haven't even told us how many the tree will max out at.. Who knows they may want you to be 1 tree for 1 spec that would make it much more cookie cutter but at this point all I see is that they say "You have to level a tree till 70" which A LOT of people do now anyways...how is that any different?
Because right now it's a choice. Even if that's what everone and their brother does, it's still a choice. Not forced.
I think this is the easy way out for Blizzard. Overall it will probably be a good thing for the game and increase the number of subscribers, so I don't blame them for doing it, but I'm guessing it's going to take out the part I enjoy most about this game (and what I thought many other multiboxers do too) - being different than the norm.
Owltoid, Thatblueguy, Thisblueguy, Otherblueguy, Whichblueguy
If you are a disc priest and you want penance you have to max out the tree... if you are BM hunter and you want the spirit beast you have to max out the tree... The reality is that if you want to be a viable tank you have to cookie cut your talents to a certain point anyway... what is the difference? I can see how it would hose up some of your 5 man teams... but the game is not designed for your 5 man team.
Rolls are already uniform, they are already cookie cutter. For a enhancement shaman to have to use a 2hd weapon until he can get DW is retarded. Why is it better to wait for spec defining abilities? Why should a Tank druid have to put points into resto to be able to get tank talents? Why should a resto shaman have to wait to get earth shield if it is a class defining talent? It is not like they were not going to take that talent anyway....
Last edited by Teal : 07-07-2010 at 02:12 PM
Teál
Still Working on my Team
For some classes it's an illusion of choice. Simply because EVERYONE does it, I don't remember the last time a resto druid didn't take wild growth...
So to get your abilities that you want now you are locked in, you just have the choice to skip them and not have them...Which isn't that much of a choice since most of them you want.
Class spec really doesn't mean much for being different in the long run when everyone else ALREADY has mostly the same talents and talent specs you do. Especially if you are a theorycrafter...
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