MASSIVE changes incoming to ALL talent trees!

[Owltoid]

For some classes it's an illusion of choice. Simply because EVERYONE does it, I don't remember the last time a resto druid didn't take wild growth...

So to get your abilities that you want now you are locked in, you just have the choice to skip them and not have them...Which isn't that much of a choice since most of them you want.

Class spec really doesn't mean much for being different in the long run when everyone else ALREADY has mostly the same talents and talent specs you do. Especially if you are a theorycrafter...

There are restokins out there. They're rare, but they do exist.

[Owltoid]

If you are a disc priest and you want penance you have to max out the tree... if you are BM hunter and you want the spirit beast you have to max out the tree... The reality is that if you want to be a viable tank you have to cookie cut your talents to a certain point anyway... what is the difference? I can see how it would hose up some of your 5 man teams... but the game is not designed for your 5 man team team.

Rolls are already uniform, they are already cookie cutter. For a enhancement shaman to have to use a 2hd weapon until he can get DW is retarded. Why is it better to wait for spec defining abilities? Why should a Tank druid have to put points into resto to be able to get tank talents? Why should a resto shaman have to wait to get earth shield if it is a class defining talent? It is not like they were not going to take that talent anyway....

That's the point, I don't want penance. I have little use for a channeled spell given my playstyle. Before, I had that option. (based on assumption) Now I don't.

What's wrong with having retarded specs if that's more fun? Why does everything have to be cookie cutter or else fail?

This is Blizzards copout way of not being able to have good abilities that would overlap. Just giving the example of warriors, I remember long ago they were worried that bloodthirst and mortal strike would eventually be available given enough leveling and talent points. There are tons of other examples. Blizzard decided to reduce options so they wouldn't have to worry about the crazy combinations people could come up with.

I enjoyed the crazy combinations the most. Most others just want a cookie cutter build. Blizzard is doing the right thing by catering to the masses, but if this is truly limiting then those who enjoy trying creative builds will walk away.

[Lyonheart]

This is the part that i like the most

Quote" The initial talent tree selection unlocks active abilities that are core to the chosen role. Our goal is to choose abilities that let the specializations come into their own much earlier than was possible when a specialization-defining talent had to be buried deep enough that other talent trees could’t access them. For example, having Lava Lash and Dual-Wield right away lets an Enhancement shaman feel like an Enhancement shaman. Other role-defining examples of abilities players can now get for free at level 10 include Mortal Strike, Bloodthirst, Shield Slam, Mutilate, Shadow Step, Thunderstorm, Earth Shield, Water Elemental, and Penance. "

Having TS at level 10!?!?!? that will make low level BGs crazy fun for shamies! I like the idea that all specs will have class defining abilities early like this, your low level tank WILL be a TANK! I hated having to wait until 40+ to start feeling like the role i was trying to play!

[Teal]

I agree. It is the hardest part about being in blizzards spot. Do you continue to do the same thing over and over again or do you change and try new things? It is not like they are innovating for the sake of innovation... they are working towards a goal that they have had for a long time...

[Teal]

Agreed Lyonheart, it just makes much more sense to be able to live your roll from the beginning.

I love the idea of these changes... lets see how they implament them

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Some of the new talent trees look interesting but some of it is completely retarded. Bestial Discipline (focus regen for hunter pets) is a 5 point tier 1 talent, but you won't be able to take that and then go up the MM tree. Sucks balls, IMO.

And while it isn't cookie cutter for end-game, it enforces cookie-cutter playstyle while leveling, which would piss me off badly. That is, unless they're going to change how much it costs to respec to some stupidly low amount.

[Drizhal]

That's the point, I don't want penance. I have little use for a channeled spell given my playstyle. Before, I had that option. (based on assumption) Now I don't.

What's wrong with having retarded specs if that's more fun? Why does everything have to be cookie cutter or else fail?

This is Blizzards copout way of not being able to have good abilities that would overlap. Just giving the example of warriors, I remember long ago they were worried that bloodthirst and mortal strike would eventually be available given enough leveling and talent points. There are tons of other examples. Blizzard decided to reduce options so they wouldn't have to worry about the crazy combinations people could come up with.

I enjoyed the crazy combinations the most. Most others just want a cookie cutter build. Blizzard is doing the right thing by catering to the masses, but if this is truly limiting then those who enjoy trying creative builds will walk away.

Perhaps it is a cop out but as the game progresses and talent trees grow eventually and levels go even higher, let's theorycraft here for a bit and say they do another expansion after this one, however they follow the model of this xpac as well with only 5 levels...

That means I add 1 more row to each talent tree, I add 5 more talent points and I attempt to add even more spells to an already bloated spellbook of stuff.

At level 90 now, I am looking at 81 total talent points, a new row of talents possibly and a the ability to now take all those old specs and attempt to combine abilities... That's way to much bloat, to much confusion and to much possibility that my end talent point that I want gets nerfed due to it being buffed by some 20 pt talent that crossed with a 41 and another 20 that made it awesome....

Natural progression would be to remove the bloat, and give you options still (Same number just less chaos) and therefore less random OMFG PVP NEEDS PVE ABILITY NERF NAOW crap...

[Owltoid]

Are they going back to an Alpha testing or is this live in Beta? Any word on their timeline? This seems crazy to make massive changes like this unless they're going back to the drawing board.

[Duane]

I don't like the change that makes you put 31pts first. Some of my favorite leveling builds are mixed tree. For example on my DKs I like going up in Unholy to get the ghoul then putting the rest in Blood. Sure it's not optimal for DPS but it fun to solo and it suits my pre 80 play style to a T. As it looks now I'll have to go all the way to gargoyle before I'll be able to try and get something like Rune Tap.

[Bot]

you guys act like you just know you wont like the new way at all. what if turns out its sweet and totally playable. what if it turns out that you CAN find a new spec that fits you well. i have to channel svper and say i dont much like this sky is falling stuff. you havent even seen the new stuff yet. just relax.

edit: missed owltoids other post