Against the rules?

[Owltoid]

from what i can gather from Lax, ISBoxer was specifically designed so you can't bot with it. Just so I am clear on what you're saying: I could put a spell on key 1, another spell on key 2, press 1 once, then 2 three times, then 1 again at exactly 2 presses per second. The above functionality you mentioned will do that on 1 button instead of two, similar to how we all write click macros with commas. Have I got that right?

In which case I'm not concerned. I would be concerned if after x seconds ISBoxer would ACTION a keystroke, which it won't do.

You are correct. You could time yourself well, press the 2 key three times, and then switch back to the 1 key.

However, with ISBoxer, you no longer have to think about anything. You can just spam the 3 key as much as you want, and ISBoxer will take care of when the 3 translates into 1 and when the 3 translates into 2 using a clock. If it didn't use a clock then I'd have no issue with it... but isn't that all delays are is disabling something until a predefined amount of time expires?

In my opinion, if you think delays are against the rules, then you'd agree this is against the rules. (I realize many things can create delays, such as the fancier keyboards... but I thought the community interprested using those delays as against the rules).

[warbringer]

ISXBoxer cannot be used for botting. That's what ISXWoW and ISXWarden used to be for in combination with say.. OpenBot.
You can use Innerspace + ISXBoxer without any worries.

[Owltoid]

ISXBoxer cannot be used for botting. That's what ISXWoW and ISXWarden used to be for in combination with say.. OpenBot.
You can use Innerspace + ISXBoxer without any worries.

I apologize if I was wrong. You can use HKN for botting because you can press one button and have HKN push buttons at predefined times for the next 10 minutes if you want. That fits my definition of botting, though I doubt anyone would truly use HKN as it would likely be way too complicated and there are other options out there.

I was under the impression that you could do similar things with ISBoxer, but I admit I haven't used the program still. I thought it would be able to push one button, and have ISBoxer go through different steps for the next 5 minutes if you set it up to do so.

Botting was definitely a term I shouldn't have introduced into the conversation Instead I should have just referenced delays.

[thefunk]

I think the point svper is making is that we have exhausted this topic to death. Are you at your computer? Yes. Are you manually controlling your toons? Yes. Therefore it should be ok.

[Owltoid]

I think the point svper is making is that we have exhausted this topic to death. Are you at your computer? Yes. Are you manually controlling your toons? Yes. Therefore it should be ok.

That's fine by me, but that also means the community has changed over the past couple of years Evilseed was banned for many reasons, but part of his flame war was against using his mouse broadcasting programs that send the mouse cursor to a predefined location on the slave screens (the community thought that was too much automation).

I am glad that I'm getting a warm fuzzy feeling about using these "delays" from the community, as that will help influence my decision to use them, which will make my toons easier to play.

[Lax]

However, with ISBoxer, you no longer have to think about anything. You can just spam the 3 key as much as you want, and ISBoxer will take care of when the 3 translates into 1 and when the 3 translates into 2 using a clock. If it didn't use a clock then I'd have no issue with it... but isn't that all delays are is disabling something until a predefined amount of time expires?

What? This is not what a delay is in the context that Blizzard is concerned about. If a "delay" means you push a button for a while and different things might happen each time, then what do you think of /castsequence + /click? It's the same concept.

A delay in the sense that is considered automation is as follows: I press a key. 2 seconds later with no further action, as a result only of my pressing the key 2 seconds prior, something else happens. And hey, why stop there, 2 seconds later it happens again. And then again 2 seconds later. Now, 6 seconds apart, 3 things happened without my touching the keys, and I didn't even need to be at the computer anymore (this specifically is where "1 Key = 1 Action" comes from). ISBoxer does not provide any method of creating a delay.

If you are pressing the buttons to cause instant action at the time of the press (and/or release), and this action happens without any input from the game environment etc, and without otherwise breaking the EULA/ToS, you're not botting.

Past that if you think something you could possibly do might be against the rules, don't do it. From my understanding of the actual rules, and conversations between me and Blizzard, I don't see anything implemented in or configured through ISBoxer as being a problem. In the end everyone has different ideas of what automation means (especially who have no experience with bots) and so there's a lot of different interpretations of the rules, GM posts, etc. Use your own judgment and you'll be fine.

Edit:

I thought it would be able to push one button, and have ISBoxer go through different steps for the next 5 minutes if you set it up to do so.

Oh definitely not, thanks for clearing that up for us

[Owltoid]

What? This is not what a delay is in the context that Blizzard is concerned about. If a "delay" means you push a button for a while and different things might happen each time, then what do you think of /castsequence + /click? It's the same concept.

I'm ok with the /castsequence and /click combination because (1) you can do it inside of WoW (duh ) and (2) it's not using an external clock but instead relying on human timing.

I don't want to continue beating a dead horse since I think it's clear that the community is ok with the funcionality. Thanks for all the constructive replies I'm really looking forward to ISBoxer!

[Ualaa]

My two cents...

Hundreds (or thousands; only Lax has the numbers) use IS Boxer for a multitude of games. To date, to my knowledge no one has been banned for its use in any game.

Use what you're comfortable with, and don't use whatever functions you think might be in a grey area; I don't use all of the functionality of IS Boxer... But even if you consider an area to be grey, no one has been banned or suspended for using it, which says something there.