New 10 man, trying to decide what group setup for PvE

[Mokoi]

OK, So I have decided to take the plunge, and at least try 10 mans with some toons that I have and if needed lvling new toons on my shiny new 5 RAF accounts.

I have the following toons:

Tanks:
Paladin - 5.5k GS
DK - 4.3k GS
Druid - 4.1k GS

Healers:
Priest - 4.8k GS
Druid - 4.8k GS
Shaman - 5.4k GS (mostly PvP unfortunately, but can be fixed)

DPS:

Shamans
Boomkins
DKs
Paladins
Priests
Locks
Hunters

I want to make the team now, and get practiced up for Cata, so when I am 85, I can jump into current content at least with a sporting chance of getting some success.

The problem is, i have no Mages or Rogues, which seem to make up a large percentage of CC these days, on top of their ridiculous DPS, and they plan to make CC non-optional or, at least more important in Cata, which I have to keep in mind. I also only have hunters at lvl 70, which I think I need at least a hunter or rogue for mis-direct to be moderatly successful? or at least for the buffer threat to ensure my healers don't get bounced?

The team I had planned out is:

Pally Tank
DK / Bear tank

Priest Healer
Druid Healer

Ele Shaman - Offspec resto
Ele shaman
Lock
Lock
Boomkin
Hunter


all ranged DPS and healers save for the tanks.

Has anyone had any luck 10-boxing melee in raids? would that be ridiculously impossible? probable? good? anyone have any clues? I have more melee DPS than I do ranged, but it seems much safer to go ranged.

If anyone asks, the reason i don't try both out, is that I would have to xfer more toons from the first 5 to the second 5 accounts, and I am trying to limit how outrageously expensive this gets, much to its inevitable expensiveness.

Also, bear or DK tank? Who can tell me about this and which they figure would be easier to macro and manage?

[Kedash00]

there are some good videos of people doing random 10 man raids in the PVE section on the forums.

I was wondering when bliz would make CC a "needed" factor again, sucks cause i got used to running in and aoeing the shit outta everything, seems to be much easier the way it is now for us.

I guess it's time to pull out those old macros and round robin again

[Mokoi]

yeah, I was more interested in seeing what people thought about, the people with the videos included, based on their experience. I have seen the videos, thanks :P

[Ualaa]

I would think a bear tank would be easier then a deathknight tank, at least looking at warcraft from the perspective of the current expansion. But a click castsequence certainly works for a DK.

You already have a druid healer in your proposed groups, so the buffs are already present.

I like the idea of essentially two five man groups: Tank, Healer and 3x DPS. And one of your DPS can dual-spec to be the 3rd healer.

From a loot perspective:
- Plate: Pally Tank, possible DK Tank.
- Mail: Shaman x2, Hunter.
- Leather: Possible Bear, Druid Healer, Druid Boomkin.
- Cloth: Priest, Warlock x2

The composition is predominantly caster based, I don't see a huge difference between a Bear and a DK. If you go with the DK, you end up with 2x Plate and 2x Leather users. But the Bear would be the only user of melee leather anyway.

Possibly change one of the Warlocks to a Mage, for Arcane Intellect and an easier CC option. Plus portals and summoned food.

[Theradin]

When I started 10-boxing I used a DK tank and paladin tank. I discarded the DK tank and have never regretted it - the tanking style is just too proactive and not very macro friendly. Plus you won't need two tanks for every situation, DK's only offer a melee off-spec, and that may be an added liability. I have no experience with druid tanks, but on the surface they seem viable depending on how well rage works with a macro, not to mention they can be used for either healing or ranged DPS when not tanking. As I have no experience with them as tanks, I can't make any statement on whether or not their threat cycle is macroable.

For healing, you'll want two main healers and an optional third healer. I find it best if the third healer can work off of a macro that you can forget about, something that focuses on the main tank, but that's just my preferred style. I like the idea of matched healers for the two main healers - for example a pair of priests for their excellent AoE healing capabilities. I see no immediate problem with shamans and paladins as multibox raid healers, but I don't have experience with them in that capacity. Druids would be my last choice for healers. Much like DKs for tanking, druid healing seems more proactive in nature and that additional level of management is something to avoid.

Finally, for DPS, I'd try to cover all major buffs. Stick entirely to ranged else you'll be dealing with added mechanics in many fights and that will be ...annoying. All classes are viable to some degree, but my opinion is that hunters and shadow priests come with the most severe limitations. Shadow priests are disadvantageous because their DPS cycle has an overly lengthy ramp up time and one of their core abilities ( mind flay ) will consistently break auto-follow and change your character's orientation. Hunters are a bit worse - in addition to a pet, which will potentially soak up healing and die alot, hunters also consistently break auto-follow and change character orientation. They have proactive threat management, and a limitation on the range of their attack. They also don't have a very synergetic relationship with other ranged DPS given their damage is physical.

All of the DPS classes also come with limitations, but with the experience I've had, the two classes above are the only two that make me want to avoid them at all costs. As an added caveat, I can only relate what I've actually tried, experiences may vary. What works for me may not work well for other people, I'm far from an expert on multibox group composition. I wouldn't have thought a melee group was viable for 5-boxing, but people have proven me wrong many times over.

With the group you've planned out, I might suggest dropping a druid, taking one of your DPS priests and converting it to healing. Drop the hunter and replace it with either another warlock, moonkin or shaman. If you don't mind leveling another character, I'd replace the druid tank with another paladin for the additional blessing and aura offered.

[Mokoi]

Hmm, thanks a bunch for your ideas, I understand!

About the priests, you think that 2 priests would be superior to a priest and Paladin, or priest and shaman main healer?

2 Paladins may be much better, and the double Pally buff does sound nice.. maybe I will convert one of my rets into a ret / tank.

I understand the Druid healer problem, and that sounds like a good thing to drop. So maybe I will go Priest / Shaman for main healers and add a second shaman when required, or even a Tree for 3 healing, just rotating between hots on tank and WG on raid on clique press.

The reason I am unsure about 2 priest healers as main healers, is that Synergy in priests is only really on aoe heals, and that's fine but bubble doesn't stack, and the only other spell which would be useful would be PoM which already bounces. Seems like a Resto shaman for the Chain bounce on 2 tanks and the set it and forget it earth shield, plus mana tide totem would be really nice.

So, a plan to change raid as such:

Tanks:
Pally
Pally (with a DPS on same acoount to swap in for single-tank encounters)

Healers:
Priest
Shaman

DPS:
Shaman
Shaman
Boomkin (offspec Healer)
Boomkin
Lock
Lock
Mage

[Theradin]

Hmm, thanks a bunch for your ideas, I understand!

About the priests, you think that 2 priests would be superior to a priest and Paladin, or priest and shaman main healer?

I like it, I wouldn't want to try without, but I could just be being resistant to change. I'm not sure I can answer your question because it's something that may come down to personal playstyle.

For me, the #1 challenge to overcome in 10-boxing has been keeping the raid itself alive and healthy. The bulk of my attention goes into healing - I'd say 70% attention there and 30% everywhere else. Most of my wipes occur when I fail at healing, usually due to being too distracted to pay enough attention to it or getting overwhelmed, so keeping the complexity down has been a priority for me. But again, this could just be me; the playstyle I've become accustomed to is one that puts heavy weight on the healers and it may not be best. My motto has kind of been "why use finesse when you can just heal through it". Other ten boxers might be able to give you better advice.

Second opinion, any other 10-boxers?

[Darm]

The bulk of my attention goes into healing - I'd say 70% attention there and 30% everywhere else

I think this is true, and it might even be 80/20.

DPS is just about assisting and keeping a nice steady rhythm on your DPS macro. Tanking is practically the same thing, and I'd argue it's smart to have the DPS and tank macros all combined into one macro/keypress. The tank might have to do some repositioning every now and then.

But, yeah, I agree that most of my attention is spent on healing. A 10boxer's most precious resource is his attention, and healing takes up a lot of it. I think it makes sense that "smart heals" should really pay off. Shaman and priests are probably at the top of this list.

I'm not sure how far paladins and druids fall behind. WIld Growth is just an awesome spell, in my 25 man raids when I play solo on my resto druid, I spam Wild Growth every time it is off cooldown. On the other hand, puttin rejuv on raid targets in a 10man box environmen consumes quite abit of the 10boxer's attention.

Paladins naturally are a single target healers, but I'm wondering if the two-for-1 effect you can get with beacon of light makes them worth considering. If you remember to put Beacon on the tank every 90 seconds, then you might be ok with it.

I'm running a druid + resto shaman as part of my two man team, but I'm having second thoughts about this. I suspect that perhaps the most ready "out of the box" healer configuration for a 10 man team would be some combination of shaman or priest. That's assuming only two healers. If going with three healers there are probably a lot of configurations that might work, but it might be kinda complicated and if you select three different healing classes one of them might end up being underutilized.

[Ualaa]

Blues have posted, Beacon will likely only work with the fast/expensive Flash of Light heal, in Cataclysm. Two for One healing will be too strong with efficient heals.

I know you can macro Rejuvenation, to hit the entire party. I'd imagine it wouldn't be overly difficult to set up macros which HOT the entire raid. Not sure on the boxing side, but a lot of PvE one-box raids have so many healers on the tank and the rest on the raid. It might be an idea to go with one raid healer and one tank healer, and perhaps a third healer option for when a second tank is required. This is of course speculation, as I don't 10-box.

Two Paladins will have sufficient buffs to hit everyone with blessings. But I don't think only two pallies could cover all of the auras, although two should be plenty for most encounters. Healing options are: Druid, Paladin, Priest and Shaman. All of these bring a decent DPS spec, although the Paladin has to be melee if they're not a healer. Having the option of dual-spec for some of your toons is a decent idea. Most of the time, you'll need two tanks, two healers and six DPS, but sometimes more healing or less tanking.

Overall, I would try to balance so you have all the raid type buffs between your toons. After that, ideally you would have an even number of toons using each type of drop.

[Mosg2]

Based off of all their statements regarding class changes in Cata I *really* think you should wait about a month before you start looking at what exact setup you'd like. Yes, right now Priests make great 10 box healers and Paladins make great tanks... But everything they've announced indicates that *every* healing class is going to function for the most part similarly. Same with tanks. They don't want tanks that just spam 6/9/6/9 and they don't want healers just tab-hotting.

That having been said, I agree that a ranged team is going to be about 5x easier to handle than a caster team