Heroics w/ Melee team

[zenga]

Aye, consumables can really give that extra boost you might need. I use the drums of the wild and drums of the forgotten kings, the stamina scrolls and out a great feast before starting a challenging fight. Flasks & elixirs are very useful as well, but that will get pretty damn expensive in the long run.

[OzPhoenix]

With Hydronox I am moving out of the poisons and cleansing, but what seems to happen is that my team winds up getting scattered (like, at least 2 members will, for some reason despite my not telling them to IWT, run off to some far corner of the room and sit in a corner) or the placement of the poison graphic on the ground will make it look like we aren't in it, but we are. I'm sure I'll get it at some point.

Let you in on a secret, I rarely use IWT during combat. I've found it's just too flaky. I use it for taggin vendors and the like but that's about it. I accept a minor hit in DPS, to avoid the very often documented cases of followers going running off in all four directions after an IWT selected target dies.

The hit, of course, is that the Rets won't start DPS'ing on the prots new target until they receive a keystroke translating to some attacking ability. Still, even after chatting with Lax about it over on ISBoxer.com forums, for me personally, I keep my finger off the IWT unless I really really need it (or can afford to have funny things happening).

Yesterday I did the following heroics:

Heroic Nexus - the *entire* thing was trivial (I was assuming the mage would wreck me, but we ripped her to shreds FAST), cleared it in like, 20 minutes, no deaths.

Well done on Nexus. I actually ran into problems on that with my team in getting past the frozen Alliance boss (Stoutbeard) and his nasty whirlwind. Once I held DS in reserve for that it got onto a farm status. Also, you probably know this already, but just in case, when facing up to Ormorok if you get the whole team cheek to cheek with him, you'll miss all the spikes and can treat it like a static tank 'n spank fight.

DTK - Dred was the only one who posed any challenge, but tanking him at the middle of the stairs made the fears a non-issue. No deaths.

Yeah, Dred's the hardest one in there I think (though Novos can run Rets mana out if DPS is low). I actually tank him inside that enclosure, both to reduce the sprint on the fear, and to nab the achievement as well. He's also got that nasty teeth-bearing stomp thing going on but his mostly cuddly 'n fun.

UK - 99% of the time this is now pretty easy assuming I don't fumble-finger during Ingvar.

OK - Totally easy, 20-25 minutes, tops.

I use my Ret-only movement keys for that one. I just keep an eye on where Ingvar is about to throw that AoE stomp and strafe 'em around the side. I hear the column works well for that too.

HoL - I can get past the first 2 bosses easily, but there's no way I'm going to handle the lightning boss, so I didn't even try. Maybe once I figure out movement better I'll try - I know I could kick Loken's butt if I could get to him, so that's no worry.

This was one of the last dungeons I put onto farm, and I assume you're having issues with Ionar too. The mobs just past Volkhan are a pain in the ass too with their fear which requires a target-reset to restore as well.

For Ionar, I heal through his electricity debuff he attaches to one player, then do the runner when he changes into his lightning spider things. DS is also handy for that player-debuff if it comes down to it.

HoS - I keep fumble fingering during the event; it's the stupid stuff on the ground that I wind up getting stuck in for just a tick or 2 before I can get out that winds up taking me out. So I can't even take 1 boss here, alas.

Phase 2 and 3 is where you need to be on the move a little. The laser in particular is very slow to react, so if you campe somewhere on the stairs for a few seconds, then shift positions the laser hits where you were, not where you've moved to. Consecrate is a real bonus here for picking up the mobs too.

I'll try CoS today to see if I can handle it now - it was ripping me up a while ago, but that was pre-IS and pre-getting my tank geared.

Glad to hear in a subsequent post you slaughtered H CoS. Once the team all has their Drakes, go for the Zombiefest achievement - it's a lotta fun... hehe.

What I'm doing now is just running random heroics with my team and if it's a dungeon I can handle, I clear it of course, but if I can't I just do the parts I can, by which time I can just teleport out and try to run another. If it's one I'll just repeatedly die in without taking out a single boss, I teleport out and raise some professions til the timer resets. As my gear gets better hopefully I'll clear more and teleport out less I did get about 35 badges on each team member yesterday, so I figure the gear will be improving quickly!

Sounds like you're getting over that curve. I did the same thing, at the start I could only count on about 12 badges a day, but it kept expanding, and now the team can do 'em all. Have you got the i219 weapons out of normal ICC 5mans yet?

I think mostly I just need to figure out a better way to move out of stuff like fire, poison, etc. Is there any kind of add on that will say "HEY! Idiot! There is about to be stuff on the ground so move!" either while the thing is being cast or right when it gets cast? Between the consecrate and divine storm spam, it's sometimes hard to tell the difference between my stuff and patches of fire/void/etc. If anyone has ideas on better ways to handle lots of movement (I have keys set up to help my followers strafe while I sit in place, ones to make us all strafe, etc.) I'm all ears.

DBM will do it nicely, though I reckon just knowing the fights will be better than DBM, which is reactive only. Frick and Ick in PoS is like that - DBM will tell you your standing in goo, but by the time it does, the rets are turning green and sticking one foot in the grave already.

Right now, yes, doing the distributed healing with the rets spamming FoL as needed, and it works very well. There's never really been a time where I've died due to a lack of healing - it's always been a mechanic/movement kind of thing. What's making a dedicated healer setup seem more necessary for Cata? Though, I have been collecting a healing offset for one of my team - might as well, to get some experience with it, and maybe it'll help in some of the fights I'm finding tricky.

Well for Raiding, the dedicated healer is, I think, a must. To be honest, I'm going off ICC and VOA only - Naxx seems ok (proabably because I'd outgeared it by then and was running with another 5-boxer who had a dedicated healer).

The problem with 4xRet-healing in a raid setting is that the tank is taking so much damage that the Rets spend almost as much time healing as DPS'ing (particularly if they have to heal without an instant FoL proc). Not only does that dampen down their DPS a lot, but their Heals are very mana-inefficient when compared to what Holy's can put out, especially on single-target (that is, tank) healing. In the raids I've been in, even just ICC trash killing for Rep, the Prot's always bouncing around 100% mana, and the Rets are often as not gulping down another drink after every second fight.

Worse, if the Rets run dry during combat, then no mana means no healing, and everyone gets a free trip to a glowing white angel.

What I'm planning for my team (just one piece of gear to go before converting Pally #5 to Holy), is to use the Holy for tank-only healing and emergency Ret healing, and use the Rets healing to top themselves up when taking occasional damage from melee-aoe's and the like, using all those lovely free, instance FoL's they proc so often (and which Jamba helpfully displays for me).

As to Cata, I'm making an assumption there. I figure with a focus on bringing CC back into the regular dungeon running picture, I susepct they'll try and re-inforce the traditional 1 x Tank, 3 x DPS, 1 x Healer set up for 5mans as well.

Oh, and PS: Yeah, get those Drums. +54 Nature Resist (for which we have no Aura to duplicate), and Stamina and they're dirt cheap to make (unlike the much more expensive Fortitude Scrolls).

[kate]

Thanks for the detailed comments, as usual, Oz!

I don't use IWT when fighting Hydronox - so I'm not sure why they're running away. It's really strange. I'm sure I'll get it sorted out or, once I get a few more pieces on my rets, just brute force through it.

Got the hammers on all rets, and as soon as they all qualify for the heroic version, I plan on farming Heroic PoS trash to get hilts - most likely to sell, since Cata is nigh and money trumps gear that'll be instantly replaced.

With regards to raiding - I'm assuming you're talking about raiding with another boxer (or other people) and not 5-boxing raids? If you are 5-boxing anything, please let me know your secrets - I would love to try some of the earliest raids in Cata with only 5, if it's remotely possible. I will have at least 1 dual-spec healing & retribution once Cata hits. Actually, right now my current tank would be better as a ret/healing than protection, since her professions are more geared towards casters (ench/tailor) and one of my rets would be a better tank since she's mining/blacksmith. Alas, I was dumb when I first started gearing them up in heroics, so I just have a ret with more stamina than the others and a tank with a little less than she could have.

My thinking right now with regards to heroics is that I want to farm them now for money - there's no equipment they drop (except for the ICC heroics, and I can't come close to handling those yet) that would be an upgrade, and since equipment will soon be reset with Cata, farming up money, which is always useful, should be reasonable.

[Whowantstoknow]

There's quite a few encounters that can be 5 boxed "solo". I've personally done most of Naxx, Flame Levi and Marrowgar I know there's others I could do too but haven't really tried such as Sarth.

I run a 5xpally team but have switched in a shaman and dk.

[d0z3rr]

I don't use IWT when fighting Hydronox - so I'm not sure why they're running away. It's really strange. I'm sure I'll get it sorted out or, once I get a few more pieces on my rets, just brute force through it.

I rarely got to Hadronox on heroic on my pallies. They still had the crappy crafted epic 2h mace (forgot the name) and were doing terrible DPS, so I always wiped on the guantlet because i couldn't kill the last wave fast enough before the boss aggroed. I did manage to get past the guantlet once on heroic, but got my ass handed to me on the last boss (can't remember why though...). When I enountered hadronox on heroic I simply used the same exact procedures as normal (you did kill her on normal right? if not, try practicing on normal).

As for hadronox I remember she was very easy in normal after some practice. Did you try grouping your paladins up? When she does the spew thing just mash your cleanse keys until your paladins are clean. If you have a /click set up on all your pallies then all you have to do is watch the ground for the poison cloud. When it appears simply strafe all your paladins to the right or left. They will move as one so it's much easier.

If you're getting runaways, do not mash the IWT bind. It is very consistent and you should never have to mash it, just hit it once to start attacking. Unlike /assist, where I find I have to mash that multiple times for everyone to get their targets. Also, make sure you aren't getting the classic runaways. That is where you release the shift key before the movement key. This happens if you are rushing things or are in a frantic movement situation.

[kate]

There's quite a few encounters that can be 5 boxed "solo". I've personally done most of Naxx, Flame Levi and Marrowgar I know there's others I could do too but haven't really tried such as Sarth.

I run a 5xpally team but have switched in a shaman and dk.

What gear level were you? Would those encounters be feasible for a team entirely in triumph badge gear, do you think?

[Maxion]

What gear level were you? Would those encounters be feasible for a team entirely in triumph badge gear, do you think?

(all of this post is talking about 5-boxing stuff by yourself)

A lot of naxx is, maybe flame leviathan if you can get the controls right.
Personally I did some of naxx within a month of hitting 80 on my team, so that was in mostly 226 gear.
I haven't tried flame leviathan a lot of times yet, but I was getting him to about 20% on my third try in mostly 232 gear with some 245 and 251 stuff.
Sarth should be pretty easy if you can find a way to handle the portals on the one mini boss that goes immune until you kill the thing inside the portal, but if your team is all wearing plate then you should be fine on that, my squishies have not even dared try that one yet.

Marrowgar I haven't even dared try to do by myself yet since my tank doesnt even have over 40k health unbuffed (outside of icc) yet, and my team is around 5k-5.4k gearscore.

To successfully 5-box marrowgar i think the team would have to be quite geared. Since even with a full raid the gear requirement is quite high for doing it with one tank and one healer, or at least those two have to be geared.

[kate]

Farming HPoS now for hilts... Just got my first on my second run through clearing trash

[OzPhoenix]

Farming HPoS now for hilts... Just got my first on my second run through clearing trash

Grats! I've yet to see even one despite the 30-40 times I've run that instance.

Seems the RNG gods don't much like me.

[kate]

Grats! I've yet to see even one despite the 30-40 times I've run that instance.

Seems the RNG gods don't much like me.

Don't feel bad, Oz - I ran Baron countless times, no horse. And today I only made about 600g in 3 hours of running through HPoS farming trash; no hilt, no BoP epics even, no nothin'. On the plus side, I've now got a route that will let me do 4-6 runs an hour clearing almost all of the trash, so if I ever feel like farming up another I'll have that going for me.