Big changes coming to 10/25 Raiding in Cataclysm.

[Elektroz]

/nostalgia

There was an epic feeling at level 60. The 40 man raids definitely made content seem harder and more intense than the 25man raids now, but I remember being plagued with frustration over the performance of like 10 people. These were the people who ALWAYS died on Heigan's dance. God those were terrible times, lol.

I thought when BC came out that the 25man raids would get rid of those 10 or so bad players, but really it just chopped it down from 10 bad players to like 5.

Now in wotlk, I was very excited at the beginning about 10man raids for the same reason I was excited about 25man raids in BC. This is the best system (for me atleast) when stuck on a server that does not have very good 25man raiding because it allows for really fun and challenging raids without the hassle of 25 people. On Lothar for example, there's a random guild called The Followers Of Bob that does not even raid 25mans, but it is one of the best 10mans on the server (on the same level as the best 25man guild, but without all the loots from 25man raids).

So, I think this plan for cataclysm will be even better for people like me. When there aren't many chances to experience the 25man content on a server like lothar, the 10mans open a whole new world of possibilities.

Remember at 60, the fight mechanics were not harder than they are today. The real difficulty came from dealing with the terrible raiders who were married to the raid leader or whatever the circumstance. So now that we can cut down on the terrible players, maybe just 1 or none will be in raid (hopefully), the strategies will become more diverse and dynamic in order to make the actual content more difficult.

10mans offer me a great alternative to raid with 9 other excellent friends, or 1 other 5boxer, and have a lot of fun. Without them, I'd be stuck in 25mans compressing frustration and anger for the other terrible players.

[heffner]

The inevitable "progress" path of all MMO's.

Removing the tedious aspects and providing easier access to the actual game. While at the same time controlling how much of the content you are allowed to access at a given time. This is akin to offering a glass of Dom Perignon but only letting you drink it one drop at a time using an eye dropper. To me it's just a cheap way of trying to extend the life of the game.

Regardless, I am sure it will still be fun to play, but nothing like it was back in the day.

[Seldum]

Why keep the number for raid at 25 players. To me it would make more sense to have 20 man raids. This way the guilds could either choose a 10 man raid or get 2*10 man and do a "big" raid.

If you imagine a guild with 40 guys able to raid, it would make more sense to either do 4*10 og 2*20.

Anyway, I don't raid at all, so I don't really care. But to me it seems like theres no real reason to fight with the management of a 25 man raid when you get the same ilvl gear as a 10 man.
But let's see how they implement this.

[Ualaa]

I believe the original raids were 20-man or 40-man, as the size options.

In BC, they reduced that to 10-man's and 25-man's.
And have stuck with that through WotLK, and stated they're happy with that balance size for Cataclysm too.

I agree, having the larger raid as an whole number multiple of the small raid would make sense.
Whether its 2x10 or 3x10, at least the entirety of your guild could do both 10's and the larger run.

[OzPhoenix]

Originally, (played since beta here), MC and BWL were 40, UBRS was 15, Scholo and Strath were 10. The original Scholo was damned hard too - it was tough with 10 both on the fights and an insanely fast respawn rate that basically enforced a "no wipes" run or else.

20 player raids didn't arrive till AQ20 and ZG (by which time UBRS had been nerfed down to 10, and Scholo down to 5 (before being nerfed hard two or three times more)).