Big changes coming to 10/25 Raiding in Cataclysm.

[Starbuck_Jones]

Pro: No more need to combine 10 man groups to fill a 25man group for progression. Gets rid of a lot of sidelining. Example; each 10 man group has 2 tanks. 25man group still only needs 2 tanks or 3 on rare encounters so people have to swap specs and miss out on primary spec loot till its passed. Same for healers. No more pain in the butt 25man groups and filling absent players with pugs and watching loot go their way and failing because you have to teach them encounters. Currently icc10 drops 2 items a boss and 3 on 25. So they would need to have 25man bosses drop at LEAST 6 items to be "faster"(1 item per 5 players) Holy loot pinata batman!

Con: Running out of content twice as fast. The guild I am in can clear icc10 in 2 3hour nights with 7/12 hard modes, the other nights we spend on icc25. So if were done in 6 hours, whats left to raid? Many already only log on to raid as it is and if you can gear up faster in a 25man than you could previously by doing both 10 and 25, then they better be shelling out new raid content every month or its gonna get boring fast.

If I were in charge: Make loot lockouts. Like the bronze drake in Culling of Stratholme, it doesnt even show up if you already have it. Simply put boss kill loot on lock out per player instead of locking out the content itself. This way when im on during an non raiding day, I can still pug or if someone is absent I can switch groups and participate. If its a boss ive already killed that week, give me an emblem, but no loot. It sucks big time when we run our 2x10 man groups and some people dont get to go. A day later and 1 or 2 people may be gone, but the people left out either have to sit and hope someone is gone who's roll they can fill, or pug and risk a lock out 3 days later when they are needed for the guild. <--- Total ass situations that need to be removed. Next would be smarter loot drops. For fucks sake bryntroll has dropped every goddamned week. I have half a set of holy gear now thats not even an OS and 3/5 t10 ret, but guess what?, no neck or tanking trinket has yet to drop.

Theres good and bad with this depending where you sit. My guess is the changes are based on numbers that we dont get to see. Golden rule is worry about what 80 percent of the people are doing 80 percent of the time. For us multi-boxers it hardly effects us and only those who participate in end game raiding.

[Kicksome]

Sounds like 25 man raids are going to be far and few between. Especially if they really aren't giving an incentive to do them. I guess the 10 man content is much more popular, which makes sense.

[Mosg2]

I'm really excited about this. It means me and Void can dual-box an entire raid for the same gear that the 25m guilds get. This is awesome

[Kicksome]

I'm really excited about this. It means me and Void can dual-box an entire raid for the same gear that the 25m guilds get. This is awesome

Well put - a win for multi-boxers.

[Mosg2]

What frustrates me about PvP in WoW is that for some classes (including all melee) your life is 10x easier if you PvE. This alleviates a lot of the problems with that, I think.

[Toned]

Sam-

Remember Fansy in Flowers of Happiness training Sand Giants and Spectres in the Oasis LOL

[Ualaa]

I guess two points...



To the people claiming its becoming Warcraft: Casualclysm... Both Sam and Svper are right on this. Looking at EQ, which was the big game prior to Warcraft, they've made it much easier and less punishing, in an attempt to cater to the masses.

Addons in particular like DBM, oRA2, Decursive, Smartbuff etc, place the game on extreme easy mode, telling you to move away from the boss when an emote occurs, or that you are too close to another raid member... rather then forcing you to notice yourself.
And catering to the masses has proven to be a far stronger business model, then catering to the top 0.05% of the player base.

It seems funny, that people are complaining that the game is becoming easier, considering the ease of the game is what made it successful to begin with. Moving further in this direction, just increases the number of players who can play through raid level content. If you desire more challenging raids then Cataclysm will provide, there are other games out there to try; or if you want your gaming to be a masochistic experience, nothing is preventing you from reverting to Everquest on a PvP server.




I see a lot more 10-man groups in Cataclsym... but hardly feel the 25-man's will die out.

It could be as simple as 2 pieces of loot (per boss) on a 10-man, and 6 pieces instead of 5 (10 x 2.5 = 25; 2 x 2.5 = 5) per boss on 25-man, but the same loot dropping. Therefore running 25's gets you the loot a little bit faster per person in the raid. 25's could also drop 100g per person more gold then 10's (over the course of a full clear), basically paying for a larger portion of your repairs.

Sure, it will be easier to get 10 players who can commit to 3 hours, twice a week, then it is to find 25 players who can do the same. You might only need 2 part-time raiders as fill-ins for the 10-man group, while you need 5-6 for the larger raid...

But I'd think most guilds will run 25's and most pugs will run 10's.

[thefunk]

go back to Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

raiding that island was HARD

[Fat Tire]

I guess two points...



To the people claiming its becoming Warcraft: Casualclysm... Both Sam and Svper are right on this. Looking at EQ, which was the big game prior to Warcraft, they've made it much easier and less punishing, in an attempt to cater to the masses.

Addons in particular like DBM, oRA2, Decursive, Smartbuff etc, place the game on extreme easy mode, telling you to move away from the boss when an emote occurs, or that you are too close to another raid member... rather then forcing you to notice yourself.
And catering to the masses has proven to be a far stronger business model, then catering to the top 0.05% of the player base.

It seems funny, that people are complaining that the game is becoming easier, considering the ease of the game is what made it successful to begin with. Moving further in this direction, just increases the number of players who can play through raid level content. If you desire more challenging raids then Cataclysm will provide, there are other games out there to try; or if you want your gaming to be a masochistic experience, nothing is preventing you from reverting to Everquest on a PvP server.

I agree, but anyone who raided in vanilla can tell you that it is a shit load easier now, just considering the time involved. Farming for raiding mats hours upon hours before the raid even took place took a hardcore person with a ton of time. Most end game raiders would spend more time farming mats than actually raiding. Flasks,chugging pots, whipper roots, night dragons, windblossms were just a few of the things that made it soooo tedious for an end game raider.

The made this game easier than EQ and I believe they will continue to make WoW even easier than it is now as they focus on their main playerbase.

Look out hello kitty~!


Edit: I am not complaining at all, I love this change. I hated the old days of having to farm mats for raids. Its so much easier now and I like that. I dont want to spend my life playing this game, just a few hours every couple of days.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

If I were in charge: Make loot lockouts. Like the bronze drake in Culling of Stratholme, it doesnt even show up if you already have it. Simply put boss kill loot on lock out per player instead of locking out the content itself. This way when im on during an non raiding day, I can still pug or if someone is absent I can switch groups and participate.

In threads about having heroic badges be BoA instead of BoP, blues have posted statements that they do not want raiders bringing their overgeared mains in and farming badges for alts. By that same thinking, I think it's probably safe to extrapolate that they also do not want to have overgeared mains running tons of runs over and over on weekends and swapping in alts every run to gear them up stupidly fast. Same principle, just horizontal instead of vertical.

I'd like to see both, IMO (badges be BoA and lockouts on raids be loot-based instead of "can't even SEE the instance/boss" based. Seems like folks would be more willing to bring pug people along and let them experience some of the nifty content (note: content, not gearscore +1) if they didn't have to sacrifice a possible loot roll to do it. But then, I'm not a raider, so you can take my opinions with a grain of salt.