Does anyone else see Cataclysm as The End?

[Menthu]

He,

I am with Super on this one. These posts are the same as they were with the previous expansions. I always get like the "wtf-are-the-doing-this-is-gonna-suck" feeling but usually it will be just fine.

Just wait and it will be just as nice as always.

Off topic: Cataclysm will be perfect. To visit the old world again and go around and do stuff in it = superb

Junglelove,

-Menthu

[Kalros]

I think that there are ways to make new content that is challenging, even for those who have decent gear. I think Heroic Halls of Reflection is a perfect example of that. My guys were in full EoT/EoF gear (my Paladin in ICC 10/25 gear) and that place was STILL hard as hell for me.

Yes, with the gear that is available now, you can sleep through 95% of the Heroics, but when I first started running heroics with a fresh team of 80s, it was challenging, and at times, downright impossible. I can recall many a nights yelling and cursing at my screen because I couldnt kill one boss or another, or kept wiping on trash in Old Kingdom. But over time, as I started grinding out Emblems of Heroism and getting better gear, it got a little easier, but still fun as hell.

Then after I was able to clear all the Heroics, there was 'Glory of the Hero' staring me in the face, which took me several more months.

So basically, I think the challenge should be in the content, not making classes weaker.

Even with raids. In the beginning we had Naxx, but then came Ulduar. So we had a raid that could be PUG'ed, and then a raid that was hard as f**k! Though I never set foot into Ulduar myself until after ICC was already out, I didnt mind the fact that they created raid content for the hardcore nerds. I was more than happy to continue hitting Naxx and running Heroics.

Basically, I think they may be catering towards the hardcore audience a little too much. But like everyone has been saying, we wont really know until the content is actually out.

And I'm sure if they do something drastic that alienates a majority of players, they'll be quick to go back and fix it.

[Ghallo]

I gotta say, all you guys complaining that WoW is too easy confuse me. If you're done then why keep playing? If you're all out of challenges ... suspend your accounts until they come out with content that IS challenging. Or try 5 boxing Naxx-ICC and see the challenges there.

Facerolling ilvl 200 content with 232+gear is of course going to be easy.

However, if you really do want a challenge - toss your gear in the bank and strap on blue i187's (Superior!). Go to those same heroics... and see how you do.

[Kalros]

durp durp durp

? ? ?

If you're all out of challenges ...

Yeah, for me it was creating a PvP-specific team (though I just went with the DK/4xRet, not very original, I know) and now I'm also starting Heroics with them. And I'm already finding certain bosses that are VERY difficult in minimal gear, especially as an all-melee team.

I'm also inspired by the guys doing 10-man content and may try that soon as well. I actually HOPE Cataclysm doesnt drop until November-ish, just so I can keep fooling around with current content.

[genocyde]

I gotta say, all you guys complaining that WoW is too easy confuse me. If you're done then why keep playing? If you're all out of challenges ... suspend your accounts until they come out with content that IS challenging. Or try 5 boxing Naxx-ICC and see the challenges there.

Facerolling ilvl 200 content with 232+gear is of course going to be easy.

However, if you really do want a challenge - toss your gear in the bank and strap on blue i187's (Superior!). Go to those same heroics... and see how you do.

I don't see any difference between putting on blue gear to clear heroics now than when Wotlk was released.

The big problem was is that normals were a joke. There was NEVER a reason to run them. 90% of people skipped them even at release. All heroics AND Naxx 10/25 were clearable with lvl 70 epic gear or 80 blues. Ya, they started with more difficulty toward the end of the expansion but having that large of a chunk of the content released in the expansion be trivial was a very bad decision.

People act like this content was only recently trivialized with the addition of emblem gear from heroics and other freebie gear (VoA) and that simply isn't the case. The world first lvl 80 naxx clears included people that hadn't even hit lvl 80 yet and some were in a mix of blues and greens. Thats just sad.

[Ualaa]

I don't see any difference between putting on blue gear to clear heroics now than when Wotlk was released.

The big problem was is that normals were a joke. There was NEVER a reason to run them. 90% of people skipped them even at release. All heroics AND Naxx 10/25 were clearable with lvl 70 epic gear or 80 blues. Ya, they started with more difficulty toward the end of the expansion but having that large of a chunk of the content released in the expansion be trivial was a very bad decision.

People act like this content was only recently trivialized with the addition of emblem gear from heroics and other freebie gear (VoA) and that simply isn't the case. The world first lvl 80 naxx clears included people that hadn't even hit lvl 80 yet and some were in a mix of blues and greens. Thats just sad.

When Burning Crusade came out, we needed to run a lot of normals to have the gear for heroics. And heroics were much harder, on an order of magnitude, then the normal versions of the instances.

In Wrath, the normals are a complete push over, aside from the newest instances from 3.3, which aren't that hard. I've seen the majority of 80's in my guild receive both the instance and heroic instance achievement at once.

Naxx 25 was totally cleared in the first week of the expansion. That is pathetically easy for any raid content.

[genocyde]

When Burning Crusade came out, we needed to run a lot of normals to have the gear for heroics. And heroics were much harder, on an order of magnitude, then the normal versions of the instances.

In Wrath, the normals are a complete push over, aside from the newest instances from 3.3, which aren't that hard. I've seen the majority of 80's in my guild receive both the instance and heroic instance achievement at once.

Naxx 25 was totally cleared in the first week of the expansion. That is pathetically easy for any raid content.

Exactly what I was saying. I remember having trouble getting through shattered halls heroic early on dispite the availability of raid geared people doing it. It was just that hard, made it fun. In wrath I've already taken my melee team through several heroics with my tank in full PvP gear and 2 of my toons only wearing gear in half of their gear slots. Heck my DK is wearing the cloth BoA caster gear he leveled in and I still had no trouble with most of the 80 heroics. I wonder how many heroics can be cleared wearing nothing but a weapon on all 5

If I can clear any heroic instance in Cataclysm without stepping foot in a normal dungeon I will consider Cata PvE a failure and use it as a purple vending machine to get ready for rated battle grounds!

[Iceorbz]

I think that there are ways to make new content that is challenging, even for those who have decent gear. I think Heroic Halls of Reflection is a perfect example of that. My guys were in full EoT/EoF gear (my Paladin in ICC 10/25 gear) and that place was STILL hard as hell for me.

Yes, with the gear that is available now, you can sleep through 95% of the Heroics, but when I first started running heroics with a fresh team of 80s, it was challenging, and at times, downright impossible. I can recall many a nights yelling and cursing at my screen because I couldnt kill one boss or another, or kept wiping on trash in Old Kingdom. But over time, as I started grinding out Emblems of Heroism and getting better gear, it got a little easier, but still fun as hell.

Then after I was able to clear all the Heroics, there was 'Glory of the Hero' staring me in the face, which took me several more months.

So basically, I think the challenge should be in the content, not making classes weaker.

Even with raids. In the beginning we had Naxx, but then came Ulduar. So we had a raid that could be PUG'ed, and then a raid that was hard as f**k! Though I never set foot into Ulduar myself until after ICC was already out, I didnt mind the fact that they created raid content for the hardcore nerds. I was more than happy to continue hitting Naxx and running Heroics.

Basically, I think they may be catering towards the hardcore audience a little too much. But like everyone has been saying, we wont really know until the content is actually out.

And I'm sure if they do something drastic that alienates a majority of players, they'll be quick to go back and fix it.

I spent 1500 gold in repairs doing Heroic ToC when it first came out. So I know the feeling of some shit being hard... I spent another 2000 and some change in Heroic PoS and Heroic HoR when they also first came out.

[mrmcgee21]

BC heroics got progressively nerfed throughout the xpac, and the people who ran 5 shamans through them were in full epic pvp gear ( that was way over budgeted for the content ). If you did the original BC heroics you would definitely not say they were easier than LK ones, yes after they nerfed the shit out of them and started handing out epics like candy people facerolled them just like in LK. I'm sure you can 5 shaman LK heroics now as well due to epics being much more available.

The difference is, LK heroics were never a challenge right from the start. Bc heroics got turned into what Lk heroics are, which I guess is just their general 5 man content design now which really makes me sad, the only challenging content in the game now are 10-25 man hard mode raids and high end pvp. I love running 5 man dungeons but when they are this easy ( even on "hard mode" ) its really disappointing and gets boring much faster.

[Tdog]

BC heroics got progressively nerfed throughout the xpac, and the people who ran 5 shamans through them were in full epic pvp gear ( that was way over budgeted for the content ). If you did the original BC heroics you would definitely not say they were easier than LK ones, yes after they nerfed the shit out of them and started handing out epics like candy people facerolled them just like in LK. I'm sure you can 5 shaman LK heroics now as well due to epics being much more available.

The difference is, LK heroics were never a challenge right from the start. Bc heroics got turned into what Lk heroics are, which I guess is just their general 5 man content design now which really makes me sad, the only challenging content in the game now are 10-25 man hard mode raids and high end pvp. I love running 5 man dungeons but when they are this easy ( even on "hard mode" ) its really disappointing and gets boring much faster.

Agreed. I actually remember comparing the orignal BC Heroics to "5 man raiding" as you had to have a plan to the pulls, not just run through them blindly w/o thinking about it. But by the middle of BC's exsistence that changed pretty drastically.