What's the first "real" test?

[Ghallo]

My first team I did all content I could at-level. However, the first fight I ran into a wall on was the final boss of Ramparts. Every team is different, but at-level that boss gave me hours of struggle. I went there with my new team and downed him first try and didn't even slow down. The big change? Knowing how to really play my team. Seriously.


H:Nexus was also a big headache. I wipefested on the final boss too many times to count. This weekend I did it without anyone getting below 90% health (learning the timings/gimmicks is important).

I agree with other posters though - this is probably one of the more interesting threads.


And no offense, but old world content (even emperor, which I did underlevel as well) just isn't hard for boxing like BC and WotLK content is. Mostly because Blizz made just about every fight a movement nightmare. Underbog, for instance, when your healer is suddenly levitated and you're like "shoot-where's my heals?!" and then the chain lightning hits and you are staring at the floor on 5 screens at once and digging through the combat log to understand why...


Not that all bosses are that way. When H:UK comes up on random ... I think "Yay, free emblems!" All of the bosses were easy even from my first attempts.

[Pocalypse]

My first team I did all content I could at-level. However, the first fight I ran into a wall on was the final boss of Ramparts. Every team is different, but at-level that boss gave me hours of struggle. I went there with my new team and downed him first try and didn't even slow down. The big change? Knowing how to really play my team. Seriously.

I completely agree with this. With my first team of Pala, 4xShamans I had a ton of trouble on this boss. Don't think I beat him until lvl 63 or so. My guys were all grouped up, and I barely knew how to move without messing other things up.

This time around, with my mixed team, I'm set up much much better, and know how to play. I got him down at 59 without any trouble.

[kate]

My first team I did all content I could at-level. However, the first fight I ran into a wall on was the final boss of Ramparts. Every team is different, but at-level that boss gave me hours of struggle. I went there with my new team and downed him first try and didn't even slow down. The big change? Knowing how to really play my team. Seriously.


H:Nexus was also a big headache. I wipefested on the final boss too many times to count. This weekend I did it without anyone getting below 90% health (learning the timings/gimmicks is important).

I agree with other posters though - this is probably one of the more interesting threads.


And no offense, but old world content (even emperor, which I did underlevel as well) just isn't hard for boxing like BC and WotLK content is. Mostly because Blizz made just about every fight a movement nightmare. Underbog, for instance, when your healer is suddenly levitated and you're like "shoot-where's my heals?!" and then the chain lightning hits and you are staring at the floor on 5 screens at once and digging through the combat log to understand why...


Not that all bosses are that way. When H:UK comes up on random ... I think "Yay, free emblems!" All of the bosses were easy even from my first attempts.

You mention a couple of things that are really interesting to me - the idea of "really knowing how to play" a team.

For example, I just got my first 5-box team up to level 62 and if I had to do it all over again, I would be MUCH more efficient the next time - I spent a LOT of time doing stuff that I really didn't need to bother doing, a lot of time just figuring out effective ways to use skills, and a lot of time trying to do things the way I would have were I on a team of individuals rather than a multi-box team. Wipes I had during the learning process would now be avoided - even with new class composition - just because I've learned some of the differences between boxing and not boxing.

Another is the idea of the older encounters lending themselves more to boxing than the newer ones. In vanilla dungeons, it seems like a multi-box team will be MUCH more effective than a team of individuals because the multi-box team will be able to coordinate better and just power through. Expansion instances seem like they require a bit more individually different behavior, which is more of a challenge for a boxer.

When I was starting this I was trying to get at the idea of the first test a boxer faces - not the hardest stuff they'll ever do, but the first point at which a boxer will run into something that requires ingenuity to get through. So, while the initial instances aren't particularly hard, they can and do still require some level of ingenuity for a boxer to be able to handle them, and that, personally, is what I'm interested in. I'm really glad to see some of the responses - it's interesting to think about!

[kate]

I completely agree with this. With my first team of Pala, 4xShamans I had a ton of trouble on this boss. Don't think I beat him until lvl 63 or so. My guys were all grouped up, and I barely knew how to move without messing other things up.

This time around, with my mixed team, I'm set up much much better, and know how to play. I got him down at 59 without any trouble.

What is your strategy? I can take him down with my 5x paladin group, but I don't bother scattering - I just DPS him until we're almost dead, bubble & heal, and then mix DPS and healing until he's dead. I'm thinking the way I'll handle it with a less robust team is to just map my arrow keys to also move my slaves rather than have them /follow or something. I predict fire and not standing it it will be one of the rougher things for me to figure out a solution to.

[Gormand]

What is your strategy? I can take him down with my 5x paladin group, but I don't bother scattering - I just DPS him until we're almost dead, bubble & heal, and then mix DPS and healing until he's dead. I'm thinking the way I'll handle it with a less robust team is to just map my arrow keys to also move my slaves rather than have them /follow or something. I predict fire and not standing it it will be one of the rougher things for me to figure out a solution to.

Ranged classes can cheat apparently (I find out after I kill the guy) But this fight is really all about movement, and a melee team is going to have to be a little more careful.
The trick is to keep everyone moving to avoid the fires on the ground while keeping up the healing on the tank. I think my group wiped on this guy for ages and when I did get him down I only just made it (Tank died DPS killed him before he got to them).

I imagine as melee the hardest bit is when the dragon first comes down, as he tends to run at you and flame breath which was 1 shotting my healer + DPS. Once you have that down as long as you strafe a bit every few seconds, spam heals and keep threat you should be ok. But I dont really like the idea of doing it all melee as a boxer :P

I think I could do it a lot better now as well, I would ensure I have a spamming heal macro for the fight, ensure I strafe more etc etc.

[Ghallo]

Solution 1 was touched on "spam a heal button" - having your DPS macro correctly time out heals to your tank gives you the freedom to worry about movement a little more.

You make a great point about "learning as a boxer" vs learning as individuals. However, understanding class mechanics can be both good and bad. My first attempts on this boss I had 2 mages on my team and thought "Fire Ward!!!!!". Made a custom mapping etc for it and thought that would win the day. It "kinda" worked. But it didn't resolve the ultimate issue which was team movement.

I litterally bought a $300 xkeys keyboard just so I could map each toon to their own set of movement keys - and just because of that 1 fight.

Of course, now that I have that all setup... it helps all over the place

Super made a great comment: First challenge is getting your team to /follow you and kill the fist monster. Everything is very easy after that!

Hardest challenge I have faced? Vehicle fights. I still can't really do them. Maybe I'll get better - but for now Occ is a wipefest and I can't even do normal ToC. The final boss for Drak is easy only because my toons are overgeared and it isn't really that hard.


Most rewarding challenge I have faced? Love is in the Air 3 bosses. Very tricky to learn, but it taught me a TON about situational awareness. Learning that raised my game.

[kate]

Hardest challenge I have faced? Vehicle fights. I still can't really do them. Maybe I'll get better - but for now Occ is a wipefest and I can't even do normal ToC. The final boss for Drak is easy only because my toons are overgeared and it isn't really that hard.

I am a little excited and a little nervous for when I get to jousting - from what I have seen, it is actually pretty easy to do for some set ups... Get everyone into a corner and targeting the same person, spam shield breaker and thrust/jab/whatever that is, and people die quickly. At least, I *hope* that will work!

Interesting comments and ideas!

[Pocalypse]

What is your strategy? I can take him down with my 5x paladin group, but I don't bother scattering - I just DPS him until we're almost dead, bubble & heal, and then mix DPS and healing until he's dead. I'm thinking the way I'll handle it with a less robust team is to just map my arrow keys to also move my slaves rather than have them /follow or something. I predict fire and not standing it it will be one of the rougher things for me to figure out a solution to.

I just spread them out, then I have keys that only move my alts. Whenever more than one of them is standing in flames I move all 4. Hardest thing was actually noticing when my tank was standing in flames and moving him.

[kate]

I just - finally - cleared my first WotLK dungeon with my 5 paladin team. I did Utgarde as my "daily wrath dungeon" and got a couple of badges (huzzah).

I was easily able to do everyone up to Ingvar, but his undead form - that shout of his - was doing me in. I wiped on him maybe half a dozen times before giving up, and then today I went back and took him down. I guess I managed to get enough good plate gear from the Nexus quests (blue tanking gloves, shoulders and boots) that I was able to get through the shouts and DPS him down quickly enough.

What's interesting to me about WotLK dungeons is that they are either brick walls or I completely coast through them once I get a slight increase in gear or level. At 69, Utgarde was virtually impossible, while at 70 it became trivial to get all the way to the last boss. Same with Nexus and Azoj Nerub - I went in and died nearly immediately to the first/second set of mobs when level 69, but at 70 I was able to take out everyone up to the last boss. I'm 99% sure I could take the dragon out in Nexus now, too, but I haven't felt like going back. For Anub, I know it's going to be a couple of levels & some more gear.

Ediit: VVV The guy does two things - the smashes, which are easy to avoid (I just have my rets stand behind him, tank in front and run through him when he begins to cast), but the shouts hit everyone regardless. In the undead phase they also have a silence attached and do like 3-4k damage - by the time I can start casting to heal again, he's casting another in some cases. It's just tricky, but I can do it now about 50% of the time.

[Maxion]

The level difference makes a big difference at some points.
As for the shouts, try moving behind him when he casts it, i think that should soften the blow on some of them.