Long time coming

[zenga]

The warrior gets you Mortal Strike, which can be huge.
But you lose the melee haste, which probably adds to more damage then Mortal Strike prevents heals.

And then you lose Death Grip + Snare, which is a large portion of the DK's strength on the team.

how about leading the warrior, 3 rets & a dk?

[asonimie]

Congratz Remanz!!

Gimmick? Maybe, but my opinion is - Don't be too sure of the weaknesses of this team. This comp has more room for improvement than shamans by far, which is easily overlooked. Although I admit most games usually seem like a spam-fest cluster-f***, on paper there are 1000 things I could do differently (haven't even touched focus targets yet). Also, you've had QDs for a weapon which are ok, but this team is 5x entirely weapon dependant and I believe that success will increase greatly with the new bloated 264 weapons.

Keep truckin! I think you'll find 2200 is just around the corner with those new babies

[Fat Tire]

congrats


I expect alot of these post in the coming weeks.

[Zappy]

Also, you've had QDs for a weapon which are ok, but this team is 5x entirely weapon dependant and I believe that success will increase greatly with the new bloated 264 weapons.

This!

I'm waiting to hear how your matches go over this next week as those weapons will hit like a truck.

[Ellay]

Kind of ironic but I also felt the same way about this team. It felt very gimmicking to me, more so than the Shamans. After several matches I would try and think about what I can improve on, what I could change on my tactics and while you can say Shamans are one dimensional - this combo is even more so.

With the Shamans I could always find a strat to make it smoother, maybe it was the sense of more control of your surroundings I'm not sure, but getting kited by 1 Mage and 2 healers while your entire team is up and lose is quite possibly one of the most frustrating experiences in Arena.

I think getting those 1800 weapons will change things greatly for you, and I love this team in the PvE realm but from what it seems Shaman may still reign supreme after the changes to resil.

[Firstcow]

The warrior gets you Mortal Strike, which can be huge.
But you lose the melee haste, which probably adds to more damage then Mortal Strike prevents heals.

And then you lose Death Grip + Snare, which is a large portion of the DK's strength on the team.

I'm not sure why you say the melee haste could add up more than what you prevent with MS. The 20% melee haste only affects white hits, and the white hits are small percentage of the paladin damange. MS cuts healing in half on that target, meaning your dps on that target increases by 100%. Or am I missing something here?

The lack of death grip is mitigated by charge. And the snare is hamstring. The warrior has less survivabilty, but if you manage to get one MS up and a hamstring then you bladestorm with the warrior and shitstorm with the pallies.

Well, I guess theory is theory, we need to see how it works in practice.

[suprafro]

@firstcow, Kromtors origional lineup was actually warrior + 4x rets, he ended up swapping the warrior out for his DK before his ratings skyrocketed to 1800 and beyond. I recall from his origional 5s thread that he thought both classes had their advantages, but he preferred the DK over the warrior and never tried both as they were on the same account

Anyway sorry for the derail, big gz to Remanz!!

[remanz]

I'm not sure why you say the melee haste could add up more than what you prevent with MS. The 20% melee haste only affects white hits, and the white hits are small percentage of the paladin damange. MS cuts healing in half on that target, meaning your dps on that target increases by 100%. Or am I missing something here?

The lack of death grip is mitigated by charge. And the snare is hamstring. The warrior has less survivabilty, but if you manage to get one MS up and a hamstring then you bladestorm with the warrior and shitstorm with the pallies.

Well, I guess theory is theory, we need to see how it works in practice.

Killing is not a main problem for this team. If the target is standing there and let you whack him, no way he can live. DK have a few (a lot actually) things over a warrior. 10% AP buff on 5. Str + Agi buff. Melee haste buff (warrior only got a HP buff, the AP shout does not stack with Might). Abilitiy to regen HP with death strike, rune tap. Better CC, Better snare (Chains of Ice is a range snare for 90%), Better Interrupt, Range silience. and Death Grip > Charge for this team. Warrior charge. Paladins sitll have to run to the target. Remeber paladins make the kill, not the warrior. Charging over doesn't make the kill, if your paladin can't get near the target (snared). So in reality, MS is all a warrior got. Blade storm only works against , huh, myself (or other boxers).

DK is soaking a ton of damage for me. I am not too sure if an arm warrior can take the beating from those wizards.

I've talked about this before. I think If anything, an enhancement shaman can rival DK as a lead, not an arm warrior.

[heyaz]

I don't think any other melee comes close. Most people focus on the snares and range closers, but there is a hell of a lot more, some of which have been mentioned but here's my list:

1. They can soak up damage like no other melee class. With AMS, IBF, and Vampiric blood (which will pop you to 50k hp in proper gear) your dk can survive being focused (since everyone goes straight for them).
2. Fear and sap immunity
3. Abomination's might and icy talons. Although I'm not completely sold on icy talons.
4. Hungering cold - another nice aoe cc. It's not the best, but it's better than the 1 terrible cc us shaman groups have
5. Best ranged interrupt you're going to get. A not so bad melee interrupt either

[Shodokan]

I don't think any other melee comes close. Most people focus on the snares and range closers, but there is a hell of a lot more, some of which have been mentioned but here's my list:

1. They can soak up damage like no other melee class. With AMS, IBF, and Vampiric blood (which will pop you to 50k hp in proper gear) your dk can survive being focused (since everyone goes straight for them).
2. Fear and sap immunity
3. Abomination's might and icy talons. Although I'm not completely sold on icy talons.
4. Hungering cold - another nice aoe cc. It's not the best, but it's better than the 1 terrible cc us shaman groups have
5. Best ranged interrupt you're going to get. A not so bad melee interrupt either

Don't forget lichborn = you are now undead and can heal yourself some more with your death coils, as well as pet sacrifice for 50% of your life back.