ToC & ICC loot drops weighted against the team

[Starbuck_Jones]

Isnt that what the whole emblem system is for? Run ICC 10 man each week, and your daily heroic and weekly raid boss and pull in some 15-30 badges a week. Every other week or so you will have enough emblems to buy a peice of gear. You know, to fill the holes when it doesnt drop.

This week we killed the first ICC wing in 10 and 25 plus the new VoA boss. 9 bosses and not a single tank item dropped. But I did get the weekly raid, 16 boss badges, and the weekly icc quest done so I did walk away with 26 badges this week from ICC. +2 a day from heroics.

I would say that you should look at the loot drops and do some research and use bagdes to fill in where your drops are lacking. For my tank I can get legs off Saurafang and the new VoA boss. Legs are going to be the last thing I buy with badges.

[Kang]

I am just speculating on a loot system that has more individual rewards or at least a better shot at the drops you want. It wouldn't replace the emblems. It would just make loot systems and rolls unnecessary since the loot is individualized.

[Mercurio]

I agree that the current system is rather disheartening at times.

I ran ICC10 three times earlier this week and kept seeing hunter drops. I looked up the boss tables and found that good hunter gear drops off every boss (unlike some other classes/specs, who have no gear dropping off some bosses).

So I ran my hunter through ICC10 today (six bosses) and got no drops, while a rogue got two weapons and a chestpiece.

Even more odd is that what used to be my "main" tank has run ICC10 five times and has gotten nothing, while my "other" tank has run it only twice and has both the tanking weapon and shield.

I understand the need for some randomness in the system, but it really is pretty poor when some people put in tons of time raiding and get nothing over more than a month, then can't get into raid groups because gear score is expected to be higher, while others run once or twice, get 3-6 drops, and everyone drools over their gear score.

The whole gear score elitism makes the bad random streaks that much worse.

At any rate, I wish they would reduce the raid loot tables by about a third, make emblems drop about 50% more than they do, and increase the number of items you can get with emblems. That would keep the unexpected RNG element but be more fair.

[Mac]

It really gets old raiding over time as a druid tank and seeing little to no drops. When something interesting does drop dps wise, even though I have more points, I let it go to the dps because I know it will do them more good then myself with so many dps checks to pass through. So, its just more raid raid raid tank tank tank blah bah blah. We've cleared up to PP in 10m. My last nice loot was the polearm off anub. I'm still waiting to see the staff off fugly, i mean rotface.

Its made me more interested in leveling up my mixed class group again. Pali and Shaman are at ~45 now so its off to strat to boost through there now. Hopefully I will solve some of the problem having the mixed class group: Pali tank: Plate, Holy Priest: heals cloth , Arcane mage: dps cloth, Shaman: mail Druid boom: leather. We'll see how it goes.

I'm still debating on the tank role. I know I wanted a pali in the group who could soak up any plate drops, and palis are op tanks for boxing, but my druid is icc10 tank geared and can take anything that heroics have to throw at him, I might just run my druid as tank till my pali gets geared.

[Ualaa]

Random can be rather un-random seeming.

If you've ever tried counting cards, playing Blackjack...
You keep a running count, which is essentially the number of exposed high cards vs the number of exposed low cards.
Each card is assigned a value, the system I used was K/Q/J/10's (-2), 9's (-1), 2/3/7 (+1), 4/5/6 (+2), A/8 (0)... and a side count on the Aces.
You practice a bunch, until you instantly know the value of single cards, and the combined value of any two or three cards.

Then whatever the running count, you divide this by the number of half decks remaining, to get a "true count".
And you base your playing and betting decisions on the true count.

Depending on the game (rules) you're playing, you might have a statistical advantage at a true count of +2 or more.
But what does that mean.
Let's say at +2, you have half a percentage in your favor.
Assume the true count is +9, which almost never happens... that correlates to 4% in your favor.

With 4% in your favor, in the long run, you'll win 52 in 100 hands, but lose 48 in 100 hands.
Chances are, you'll have a larger bet out, which is good when the deck is favorable like this.
But you'll still lose 48% of the time, even with a monumental percentage in your favor.
That's basically fluctuation.


Well wow boss drops, aren't weighted towards drops which have not occurred recently.
Even when things are weighed in your favor drastically, you won't get the drop/card you want all the time.
So, it is pretty random what drops on a given night.

[Coltimar]

This week I did the ICC instances (normal) when I could. I got 0 tank drops. Week before I ran PoS and FoS once and got 4 tank drops, lol. I won't even get into the 8 months of MC I ran for Sulfuras, only to lose the roll to a Holy Paladin . . .

[Khatovar]

8 months of MC

'nuff said

[Maxion]

This week I did the ICC instances (normal) when I could. I got 0 tank drops. Week before I ran PoS and FoS once and got 4 tank drops, lol. I won't even get into the 8 months of MC I ran for Sulfuras, only to lose the roll to a Holy Paladin . . .

And people wonder why I take the time to farm first boss in kara, tiger and raptor in zg, all of mc, and often bwl by myself every week....

[kadaan]

8 months of MC

No matter how easy Blizzard makes it, people will always complain. Anyone who played in classic knows just how LONG it took to get gear. I _never_ got my t1 pants on my rogue. 20% drop chance, so on average it takes just over a MONTH to even see it drop. Then you're competing against 4-6 other rogues in your 40-man raid for that single item. There was no tier token system. No emblem system. Even for your dungeon 1 set you spent weeks or months farming (I finally got my shadowcraft chest on my 51st ubrs run.)

Not really sure what to say to your "I fully understand statistics" statement, as following it with "to only drop the same plate item 80% of the time is not random" completely contradicts it. If the same plate item NEVER dropped 10 times in a row, THAT would be proof that the system isn't random.

"again, I say look at any lotto game in the country and show me where the same number, any number, showed up 8 weeks in a row."
How many numbers are there in the lottery? More than 13 I would imagine. Find me a lottery that only has 13 numbers and I'll give you a list of the hundreds of times the same number was chosen 8 weeks in a row.

[falsfire3401]

No matter how easy Blizzard makes it, people will always complain. Anyone who played in classic knows just how LONG it took to get gear. I _never_ got my t1 pants on my rogue. 20% drop chance, so on average it takes just over a MONTH to even see it drop. Then you're competing against 4-6 other rogues in your 40-man raid for that single item. There was no tier token system. No emblem system. Even for your dungeon 1 set you spent weeks or months farming (I finally got my shadowcraft chest on my 51st ubrs run.)

Not really sure what to say to your "I fully understand statistics" statement, as following it with "to only drop the same plate item 80% of the time is not random" completely contradicts it. If the same plate item NEVER dropped 10 times in a row, THAT would be proof that the system isn't random.

"again, I say look at any lotto game in the country and show me where the same number, any number, showed up 8 weeks in a row."
How many numbers are there in the lottery? More than 13 I would imagine. Find me a lottery that only has 13 numbers and I'll give you a list of the hundreds of times the same number was chosen 8 weeks in a row.

QFT. The old system sucked royally. I raided in 40-man days. 6 nights a week, 5-6 hours a night, and sometimes went 5-6 weeks without getting a new item once I was "relatively" geared. In who knows how many months of BWL, I never got my tier2 gloves or bracers. They dropped only once each when I was there (and I was there 90% of the time), and I didn't have sufficient DKP to beat the other rogues present and win them. I was forced to run as combat/daggers for 70% of my raiding career because whenever swords did drop, I didn't win them. I wanted to be swords, but was forced into daggers because those were the epics I had.


Anyhow, back to the root message of this thread. We actually just lost our MT/raid leader/unofficial GM because of exactly this loot randomness. He's frustrated with the fact that we've been running ICC since it came out, and at the same time we're disenchanting some drops already because they ALWAYS drop, and also some people have yet to even see an upgrade for them drop out of ICC. The ridiculous amount of spellpower leather/mail/plate that drops all the time for our guild is VERY annoying, given that we're a 10-man guild we don't have alot of people that can use it. We also get a ridiculous amount of tank plate dropping, and he was the only plate tank. Our other tank is a druid. So lots of really good tank plate got sharded too...our healing paladins have nearly full sets of plate tanking gear that they will never use, because both of them have ret as their other spec