The simultaneous sending of keystrokes is considered illegal in EQ2...

[Milque]

Contemplating a change to WoW over this, but if I'm reading correctly wow you have to buy the game and each expansion seperately? There's no all in one pack?

That's pretty prohibitive for a multiboxer.

[highlander_133]

I think it may be time to just lay low and play the game – and stop bringing up this issue and keeping it at the top of every GM’s radar screen. After all, SOE didn’t come out with a front-page article on their website about how they’re going to crack down on automation, and then immediately start banning people for doing it. They haven’t tangibly done anything differently – they’ve just said things in forums and emails. Actions speak louder than words.

I agree; this whole thing has a 'don't ask don't tell' vibe to it.

However, it's difficult for me to rationalize playing a game that takes an at best ambiguous stance on multiboxing. Compare that to Blizzard's embracing of the multibox community, and SOE does not come off well.

[zanthor]

Contemplating a change to WoW over this, but if I'm reading correctly wow you have to buy the game and each expansion seperately? There's no all in one pack?

That's pretty prohibitive for a multiboxer.

Battle Chest for $36.99
WotLK for $36.99

So for $78 you have all three, this is pretty standard even in the world of EQ, where they would bundle all but the current expac.

[Captive2]

Agreed. Since they’ve taken this stance at least in writing, I can’t justify buying the expansion six times. For me, however, that’s fine; I enjoy playing the game an expansion behind the current wave anyway. That way, I have relatively empty zones, don’t bother other people over semi-contested spawns, don’t have to deal with idiots or plat farmers, and don’t have to deal with as the bugs that are endemic with new content. It also lets me save money, as you can generally buy the “new” expansion much more inexpensively if you can wait 6-12 months for it.

So hopefully they’ll just let me keep playing quietly – not PvPing, not going after highly-contested current content, and not plat farming. Just playing the game with my own happy little group of six characters enjoying the game - paying them $90 a month for the privilege.

[Velassra]

I'm not a lawyer and I have no idea of the past. But in my country (and many more EU contries) the law supersedes any eula/contract. Even if you sign and agree with it, it doesn't make the contract valid. My point is:

- one asks and official representative if it's ok to multibox: answer = yeah.
- based on that answer & their eula that does not forbid it you spend / invest money
- they change the eula out of the blue and make it no longer possible for you to play the way they agreed with

I'm really curious to know what would happen if someone with enough money/ free time goes to court for fun. Again, it's not because you agree with the eula, that it makes their eula valid. There is still something like 'bait and switch'.

If someone can get mcdonalds because their coffee was too hot, then regardless of all the expensive words in their eula, it wouldn't surprise me if a judge would enforce the rights of the customer in one of the eu countries.

If some have tried that in the past, then consider my post as bs and ignore it.

Looking it up, at least in Massachusetts, it looks like a clear case of "unfair and deceptive practices." I could send them a demand letter threatening court (small claims....MA makes it very very easy.) and I would very likely win a judgement from what I read....However, the fact that SOE (very likely) does not physically do buisness in MA takes it out of MA courts jurisdiction. Lawsuit threats would be like pissing into the wind. I wouldn't be surprised if SOE is already aware of that.
Legal systems have yet to catch up to the internet.

Although, I have threatened to dispute the charges with BoA as fraudulent charges....they claim it would be fraud if I did so. My guess, if I go back and quote the section of M.G.L. dealing w/ "unfair and deceptive practices" I may get further (I've had BoA side againt me on disputes before.).
Either way, SOE drops $400/hour on an attorney for a $90 claim.

[Fursphere]

Looking it up, at least in Massachusetts, it looks like a clear case of "unfair and deceptive practices." I could send them a demand letter threatening court (small claims....MA makes it very very easy.) and I would very likely win a judgement from what I read....However, the fact that SOE (very likely) does not physically do buisness in MA takes it out of MA courts jurisdiction. Lawsuit threats would be like pissing into the wind. I wouldn't be surprised if SOE is already aware of that.
Legal systems have yet to catch up to the internet.

Although, I have threatened to dispute the charges with BoA as fraudulent charges....they claim it would be fraud if I did so. My guess, if I go back and quote the section of M.G.L. dealing w/ "unfair and deceptive practices" I may get further (I've had BoA side againt me on disputes before.).
Either way, SOE drops $400/hour on an attorney for a $90 claim.

...and when the judge throws it out, and then Sony turns around and sues you for "whatever they want" you go bankrupt tryying to defend yourself.

Good plan!

[Targ]

However, the fact that SOE (very likely) does not physically do buisness in MA takes it out of MA courts jurisdiction. Lawsuit threats would be like pissing into the wind. I wouldn't be surprised if SOE is already aware of that.
Legal systems have yet to catch up to the internet.

That is not correct, MA courts do have jurisdiction as SOE put their products into the distrubution chain with the intent that they enter markets in MA, that is all that is required

[Tonuss]

I would assume that a company as big as Sony has its own legal department, and probably other attorneys on retainer. Dealing with a lawsuit brought by an angry gamer is unlikely to cost them anything, as they have to keep legal staff employed anyway. And if you file a civil lawsuit you will need to prove damages, and I'm guessing that the extent of damages that you could recover would be the cost of a month's subscription. How many lawyers would agree to represent you for a cut of a $15 settlement? And how many judges would allow a $15 lawsuit to get past a summary dismissal?

(And no, don't mention class action, because the same considerations apply.)

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[zenga]

A few reactions to afore mentioned posts:

1. If an american based company has a website that is available in belgium then they are subject to Belgian / EU law, regardless if they have a plant here or not. If they violate the law then it's their responsibility to either comply with the law or to not 'distribute' in Belgium (by means of filtering IP's for example). That is the theory at least. It's a gigantic network vs understaffed commissions.

2. Many of those big companies have flat fee per year agreements with their lawyers. So do many governmental departments here. Meaning that it doesn't really matter how small or how big the case is. Same goes for sony: if someone files a lawsuit against them, they need to set an example. It's not about the 100 contested dollars. They need to make a stand as a business.

3. There are many examples where a small individual wins vs a giga corp. There are lawyers who jump on that, who are specialized in this, ... Microsoft pops up on several occasions, as well as the Bosman ruling (where an anonymous football player changed the sports world). Myself i've been involved into a case against a major insurance company for 7 years after a car accident (they sued me), and in the end they had to change their (dont know the name in english, the small letters in the contract).

4. A normal human being shouldn't do this, but there are examples of people who can afford it who did do it. Sometimes there are even special companies/funds created to limit the consequences if it goes wrong.

5. Every country has different rules. It shouldn't be necessarily a US law suit.

So yeah in theory there is some ground. But it won't happen in reality i'm afraid. I'll never go through the trouble nor do i want stress in my life

I think the biggest problem most gamers have is the arrogance of such companies: you buy their products and they have the right to change it anytime. That's what most players pisses off imo.

[mebben]

Good lord, I was just about to start multiboxing EQ2 on the side again and then I find this thread... Bleah, guess I wont activate my five accounts.