4/5 PvP Rogue question/info thread

[Fuzzyboy]

I admit it, I jumped on the rogue wagon :-D Currently levelling my rogues, which are now lvl 61 and having some fun i outlands.

However, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to rogues, which is one of the only classes I've never played. Also, rogues are sort of different in terms of both multiboxing and character mechanics, so I thought I'd start up this thread with a bunch of questions to those who know more about rogues than I do:

1) What abilities and spec do you use while levelling?

I'm currently just doing mutilate spam which works well to kill one target, but I'm thinking there must be a better way?

2) How do you handle ambush/backstab type abilities with your slaves?

I'm torn between cheap shotting with my main and ambushing with my slaves (im assasination specced currently), but positioning is tricky, especially with players/mobs moving around and even when it works, I find that it's not a lot more effective than just spamming mutilate.

3) How do you gear up at level 80?

I've bought 8 brewfest mugs, some death cards etc., but since I can't run heroics with this group, I'm not sure how to gear up beyond the BoE point. Is AV + WG + 10 weekly losses in arena the way to go? I guess a round robin rotation on heroics and gear with tank + healer + 3 rogues is a option too (should be fairly fast once the new dungeon system gets working properly).

4) What's the stat priority and hit caps for rogues in PvP? What do we gem for in PvP?

DPS -> +hit -> +agi -> +ap? How high is res prioritized?

5) How do you handle poisons? One of each or priority on instant poisons?

6) Being a stealth class probably mixes things up in BG's
6.1) - what objectives do you go for as a rogue team in AV? Cap bunkers?
6.2) - what tactics do you use in WSG?
6.3) - any special notes in AB?

7) What class specific add-ons do you use?

Stunwatch? Rogue powerbars?

8) What professions do you use?

Engineering seems to be good for PvP in general, but some of the intangibles of engineering are mitigated by other rogue abilites. I.e. sprint and nitro boost, parachute and safe fall. Though not the same, they share type of effects and it seems that the tangible effects of engineering doesn't justify it over the more "traditional" professions. I'm thinking alchemy + jewelcrafting for stats and money (cooldowns), but curious about the experiences of others?

[Fuzzyboy]

Just found nifty link:

http://shadowpanther.net/

[HPAVC]

I have a variety of specs on my guys, mostly just variations in cold blood shadow step (so one has improved kidney shot, one hemo, etc). I am pretty conservative and I lead heavily with one character for an opener and a single rotation and then I usually crunch with four finishing moves as openers.

I rotate screens and just let the previous main regen if needed while stalking the next mob.

In pvp I 'throw' a slave at a character with shadow step and have him do a stun lock rotation while the main and other slaves catchup in stealth. If I botch I can always have the everyone jump the guy.

Sadly all that fancy running around is a big time soak and I can all attack keyboard cast just as well.

I am mostly trying to get the sense of how this works in pvp really and trying to get back into stealth as soon as possible and deal with multiple characters.

One thing about this crew is that beating up on a faction city is pretty fun. Run around, destroy a few people, logout, do some dailies, log back in destroy the auctioneers, etc.

[Fuzzyboy]

I have a variety of specs on my guys, mostly just variations in cold blood shadow step (so one has improved kidney shot, one hemo, etc). I am pretty conservative and I lead heavily with one character for an opener and a single rotation and then I usually crunch with four finishing moves as openers.

I rotate screens and just let the previous main regen if needed while stalking the next mob.

In pvp I 'throw' a slave at a character with shadow step and have him do a stun lock rotation while the main and other slaves catchup in stealth. If I botch I can always have the everyone jump the guy.

Sadly all that fancy running around is a big time soak and I can all attack keyboard cast just as well.

I am mostly trying to get the sense of how this works in pvp really and trying to get back into stealth as soon as possible and deal with multiple characters.

One thing about this crew is that beating up on a faction city is pretty fun. Run around, destroy a few people, logout, do some dailies, log back in destroy the auctioneers, etc.

Good info, thanks. As for the "throwing" of a slave, do you do the stunlock manually or do you have a castsequence of sorts?

I assume there's a reason that you choose the shadowstep spec, did you try out several specs and found this to be more effective?

[Fuzzyboy]

I have a variety of specs on my guys, mostly just variations in cold blood shadow step (so one has improved kidney shot, one hemo, etc). I am pretty conservative and I lead heavily with one character for an opener and a single rotation and then I usually crunch with four finishing moves as openers.

I rotate screens and just let the previous main regen if needed while stalking the next mob.

In pvp I 'throw' a slave at a character with shadow step and have him do a stun lock rotation while the main and other slaves catchup in stealth. If I botch I can always have the everyone jump the guy.

Sadly all that fancy running around is a big time soak and I can all attack keyboard cast just as well.

I am mostly trying to get the sense of how this works in pvp really and trying to get back into stealth as soon as possible and deal with multiple characters.

One thing about this crew is that beating up on a faction city is pretty fun. Run around, destroy a few people, logout, do some dailies, log back in destroy the auctioneers, etc.

Thanks much - especially for the talent info. A couple of questions though (if you don't mind). You've taken dirty deeds over improved ambush? I see the reason behind this for a single rogue, but multiple rogues have the option to cheap shot (with main) and ambush (with rest), making this a really nice talent. Is the damage increase below 35% really that good?

Also, I see AE attacks being one of the greater threats to the group, perhaps enveloping shadows would be a good pick?

[Fuzzyboy]

4) What's the stat priority and hit caps for rogues in PvP? What do we gem for in PvP?

DPS -> +hit -> +agi -> +ap? How high is res prioritized?

Answer to own question from shadowpanther.net:

PVP AEP
1 Agility = 1 AEP
1 Strength = .65 AEP
1 Stamina = .60 AEP
1 Hit Rating = .60 AEP
1 Crit Rating = .64 AEP
1 Attack Power = .65 AEP
1 Expertise Rating = .70 AEP
1 Haste Rating = .60 AEP
1 Armor Penetration Rating = .65 AEP
1 Resilience = 1 AEP
1 Blue Socket = 26 AEP (with no socket bonus)
1 Red Socket = 26 AEP (plus socket bonus)
1 Yellow Socket = 23 AEP (plus socket bonus)
1 Meta Socket = 80 AEP
.1 Sword/Mace/Fist MH Speed = +20 AEP per .1 slower than 2.5
.1 Dagger (Slow MH/OH) Speed = -9 AEP per .1 faster than 1.8
.1 Fast OH Speed = -8 AEP per per .1 slower than 1.5
1 Sword/Mace/Fist MH DPS = 0.5 AEP
1 Sword/Mace/Fist MH Average Damage = 1 AEP
1 Dagger (Slow MH/OH) MH Average Damage = 1 AEP
1 Fast OH DPS = 1.4 AEP

Link to PvP gem priority:

http://shadowpanther.net/gems-pvp.htm

Basically:
- Meta: [item=41398]Relentless Earthsiege Diamond[/item]
- Red: [item=40114]Bright Cardinal Ruby[/item]
- Yellow: [item=40158]Empowered Ametrine[/item]
- Blue: [item=49110]Nightmare Tear[/item] / [item=40136]Balanced Dreadstone[/item]

[Ualaa]

1.
Take your pick, level as Mutilate with daggers, or Combat with whatever weapon happens to be the highest dps, out of all the weapons you have.

Mutilate spec, will be Mutilate as your DPS move.
Combat spec, you'll spam Sinister Strike.

2.
Don't bother with Ambush/Backstab.
Easier to just Cheap Shot x1, Mutilate with everyone else.
Then you don't worry about facing.

3 & 4.
For PvE, you want 8.50% hit, 26 Expertise (not sure the ratings).
I believe you only need 4% for PvP, not sure on the Expertise there either.
Armor Penetration is a good stat.
A lot of rogues gear PvE for PvP, and in battlegrounds this is probably decent for killing.
The stamina/resilience gear, will be better once you have a bunch of it.

5.
With a Mutilate/Preparation spec (50/0/21), you'll apply Crippling Poison for free, by using Instant, Wound or Mind Numbing.
I would go Wound/Mind Numbing on one or two, and Wound/Deadly on the rest.

6.
In AV, as a solo rogue, I use stealth to sneak into the last base, and cap the towers.
In WSG, you have Sprint x2 and the Speed Boots, plus stealth to get into position; Blind, Cloak, Dismantle, Evasion etc.
In AB or EotS you can "Distract", to frequently send people off of cliffs to their deaths.
Any time you decide to cause chaos in the middle, you will.

7.
I use Cooldown Count and Dot Timer for cooldowns/timers.
Deadly Boss Mods, is good for battleground related timers.
Have not really gone with a bunch of rogue specific addons.

8.
My rogue is primarily PvE focused; I've gone with Inscription + Jewelcrafting.
Inscription was a largest profession boost over not having that profession, for a rogue. Plus did not need to level Hodir on this toon.
Jewelcrafting both as a decent money maker and for the Dragon Eye gems.

[asonimie]

2.
Don't bother with Ambush/Backstab.
Easier to just Cheap Shot x1, Mutilate with everyone else.
Then you don't worry about facing.

I agree with everything but this. Ambush is HUGE frickin damage when you multiply x3.. and with a crit rate over 90% in pvp gear... you'd be a fool not to 1 shot those clothies! (its hilarious)

In PVP you'll be using IWT spam. My cheap shot/ambush button is the same as my mutilate (out of stealth), button "3". Put cheap shot / 3xAmbushon your stealth bar. IWT is essentially a right click (initiate autoattack)... so if your rogue gets to melee range before you tell him to do anything... he'll start autoattacking breaking stealth anyway.... IWT + ambush spam will never prevent you from breaking stealth if in front of your target. It works flawlessly.

I actually glyph ambush on my 3 followers because it adds +5 yards to their range, meaning that in their rear position the ability is much more usable.

Enjoy!!

[Shodokan]

I agree with everything but this. Ambush is HUGE frickin damage when you multiply x3.. and with a crit rate over 90% in pvp gear... you'd be a fool not to 1 shot those clothies! (its hilarious)

In PVP you'll be using IWT spam. My cheap shot/ambush button is the same as my mutilate (out of stealth), button "3". Put cheap shot / 3xAmbushon your stealth bar. IWT is essentially a right click (initiate autoattack)... so if your rogue gets to melee range before you tell him to do anything... he'll start autoattacking breaking stealth anyway.... IWT + ambush spam will never prevent you from breaking stealth if in front of your target. It works flawlessly.

I actually glyph ambush on my 3 followers because it adds +5 yards to their range, meaning that in their rear position the ability is much more usable.

Enjoy!!

Didn't even think of using the glyph =P

What other glyphs? Eviscerate + what?

[Fuzzyboy]

I agree with everything but this. Ambush is HUGE frickin damage when you multiply x3.. and with a crit rate over 90% in pvp gear... you'd be a fool not to 1 shot those clothies! (its hilarious)

In PVP you'll be using IWT spam. My cheap shot/ambush button is the same as my mutilate (out of stealth), button "3". Put cheap shot / 3xAmbushon your stealth bar. IWT is essentially a right click (initiate autoattack)... so if your rogue gets to melee range before you tell him to do anything... he'll start autoattacking breaking stealth anyway.... IWT + ambush spam will never prevent you from breaking stealth if in front of your target. It works flawlessly.

I actually glyph ambush on my 3 followers because it adds +5 yards to their range, meaning that in their rear position the ability is much more usable.

Enjoy!!

Yeah, I've had a lot of fun with ambush too :P Only problem is, the only good weapons available when I hit 80 are the tankards, which for obvious reasons can't be used for ambush. I suppose you're more or less forced to go combat if you use tankards, so the question remains if combat is useful enough to last until 1800 or if it's preferrable getting ilvl200 weapons and go subtlety or assasination?

The only non-raid dagger I can think of which would be decent is the rondel from ToC hc, which is not exactly viable with a starting team of rogues :P

I remember reading about your plan to gimmick your way to 1800-weapons, which sounds like a good plan if it's doable - looking forward to hearing more about that!