And so it begins...

[Mosg2]

Update:

I played 10 games and lost 8 of them. The other teams left for the two that we did win. I was having hardware issues for the first 9 games since I'd just bought a new mouse and keyboard last night. The 10th game I was able to work them out prior and it went quite smoothly--It was an issue of gear, comp, and experience vice hardware After some AV later in the evening I'm 100% positive that 4x Paladin and a separate healer is going to be the nuts.

Pro Tip(s):
1. Do honor grind Alliance side. <1 ques, 8-9 minute AV wins. It's ridiculous.

My plan for today once the servers come back up is to solo MC and BWL while waiting in the AV que. I think I want to get a bit more of the pvp gear before I go grind out the 19 badges for the Libram.

[remanz]

After some AV later in the evening I'm 100% positive that 4x Paladin and a separate healer is going to be the nuts.

I need some inspiration to keep me from going insane from boosting my 4 paladins. In details, what makes you think they are going to be nuts. Don't tell me you kill a warlock within HOJ stun in a 4 x 1 situation. I wanna hear you took down 10 players after you bubble heal back to full :P

[Mosg2]

HoF+Art of War+Plate+Sacred Shield=Grim Reaper.

No target lasts more than 4-5 seconds in melee with me, and I'm still in blues. When 3.3 hits and all your Pallies can do a few hours of questing for a 250 dps 2h sword, it's going to be *ridiculous*.

[outdrsyguy1]

hey Mosg2, did i fight you tonight in arena? 4 ele shamans and a holy pally. dominantbull and the herd.

[Ellay]

Are you running 4 Rets and no 5th?

[Mosg2]

outdrsyguy1: No, I did no arenas last night. I did them all Monday night and I remember no other multiboxing team

Ellay: Yes. For my arena matches I brought in a healer. My DK was already 80 and geared fairly well but I hate mixed teams in pvp with a passion. I just run 4x and when I have time for heroics the DK will tank for me.

I've got to tell you, Asinomie's Rogue video is very inspiring for me. The most frustrating part about the Rets is that you have no snare. Yeah, I know you're thinking "But you've got HoF and Bubble and Trinket and 4x HoJ and innate run speed and Cleanse" etc. I'm with you. But.

Without snare the easist way for someone to kill you is to just run in the other direction. HoJ works but it's still got a limited range and you've only got 4 every minute. In BG's the targets who want to kite you are more numerous than that

I'm really starting to think that Rogues might be even more viable in arenas than 4x plus a healer. I didn't record my arena games last week but this week I'll definitely be doing it. I should be getting another two or three pieces of gear between now and then, so we'll see how it goes.

[asonimie]

outdrsyguy1: No, I did no arenas last night. I did them all Monday night and I remember no other multiboxing team

Ellay: Yes. For my arena matches I brought in a healer. My DK was already 80 and geared fairly well but I hate mixed teams in pvp with a passion. I just run 4x and when I have time for heroics the DK will tank for me.

I've got to tell you, Asinomie's Rogue video is very inspiring for me. The most frustrating part about the Rets is that you have no snare. Yeah, I know you're thinking "But you've got HoF and Bubble and Trinket and 4x HoJ and innate run speed and Cleanse" etc. I'm with you. But.

Without snare the easist way for someone to kill you is to just run in the other direction. HoJ works but it's still got a limited range and you've only got 4 every minute. In BG's the targets who want to kite you are more numerous than that

I'm really starting to think that Rogues might be even more viable in arenas than 4x plus a healer. I didn't record my arena games last week but this week I'll definitely be doing it. I should be getting another two or three pieces of gear between now and then, so we'll see how it goes.

This was a lot of my reasoning for what I'm doing. I played both sets of premades, and the rogues just felt far more "in control" of the battle. Since single target damage was very similar, to me the choice was clear. You will all have immediate movies when I hit 80, hopefully it works out. Only time will tell.

[Mosg2]

My overall impression is this:

When you're boxing in arenas your whole goal is to gib as many targets as you can before the other team can respond. Once it's 5v4 or 5v3 you can leverage your more efficient assist train into killing the rest of them. Generally speaking, active healing by the boxer doesn't happen during the gib. So with that in mind, here's why I think Rogues may be even better than a 4x Ret setup in order of importance:

1. I think Rogues are more likely than the Paladins to get a guaranteed gib on the initial target regardless of class/spec considerations. Stealth means you're much more likely to be able to open on the target you want without them being able to interfere and poisons means even if someone can survive through 8x Mutilates in one GCD (initial click, one second gcd, then 4 more coming at you) there's no way a healer can save them. With the Ret's they know in advance who you're going to attack and they can see you rush them so they can prepare/interfere.

2. Post-stealth, Rogue's defensive cooldowns are superior than Paladin's. With CoS, Sprint, and Evasion Rogues give up no damage potential while basically invulnerable whereas Paladins are giving up a significant portion of total output.

3. The healing potential of Paladins is in my opinion a non-factor. If you got your initial gib off with either team, then you're at an immediate advantage and both teams should be able to win the 5v4. Paladins will heal up and chase down the remainder while Rogues will either pop defensive cooldowns and try and hit target number 2 or if possible vanish and gib another target.

The only thing that makes it difficult for me is that a tank+4 rogues isn't a really viable pve comp Not germaine to the conversation though!

[Ellay]

That's the whole purpose of why a DK makes the 4 Rets shine though, it guarantees the target is stuck to them no matter what. With ranged snares, melee snares that are undispellable and a pull every 25 seconds.

The biggest drawback to the rogue is that they are insanely squishy. I'm glad others enjoy them and think they are awesome though

At the end of the day 4 rets with full gear should be dropping a target in 2 globals as well.

[remanz]

That's the whole purpose of why a DK makes the 4 Rets shine though, it guarantees the target is stuck to them no matter what. With ranged snares, melee snares that are undispellable and a pull every 25 seconds.

The biggest drawback to the rogue is that they are insanely squishy. I'm glad others enjoy them and think they are awesome though

At the end of the day 4 rets with full gear should be dropping a target in 2 globals as well.

well. I have to agree with Ellay again. Any 4 melees can kill. It is what makes you survive that is important. If 4 rogues can survive as well as paladins. Then It is good.

You have to stop the other team from instantly kill one of your guys. I have some questions as how to survive as rogues. We all know stun rog = dead rog since you can't pop anything while stunned. And you can't dodge while being hit from behind. I have played a fair amount of 5 v 5 on shamans by myself (no seperate healer) and I know 5 v 4 is certainly not the only situation you will face after you instantly kill someone. More often for me, it becomes 4 v 4, and 3 v 3. And worse, 4 v 3, where I have 4 and they have 3, I still lose. Because I lost my abilities to instantly kill someone with 1 fewer dps. and they just out last my mana to kill me.

The point here is surivial. Imagine the case where a warlock shadow fury all 4 rogues, shamans and paladins are more likely to see the end of that stun. Rogues, i don't know. And it is very likely 4 melees not gonna get a instant kill on the first target either. If your target is BOPed, you have a choice of poping COS + envasion or not. If you don't, you are running the risk of getting stunned and die. If you do, you have to run to your second target. After you drop this target, and now your COS on CD, how do you kill your next target. Not saying rogues won't work, just some concerns that I have. Plus, I bet 4 rogues are more fun than 4 paladins anyway.

For paladins, it is all the same. Just run around and spam that 1 button (click macro) attack while sacred shield on + instant flash heal. And 1DK + 3 paladin > 4 paladins to solve the snare problem.