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  1. #1

    Default Classic - Deadmines

    I wiped. Hard. repeatedly. about 2% of the way in. Thankfully nobody was around to see it.

    Anybody got some basic adgvice, i thought i was getting the hang of things until this little experience. I think the main probelms im encountering are:

    Defias evokers, who keep spam flamestriking my group (hitting far harder than i ever remember them being able to), which liquidates me before i can even move my team out of range.

    Mass pulling. With everything else to focus on its hard to keep track of the surroundings, and wanderers often bumble into my little skirmishes.

    Warrior fail tanking: anymore than one enemies are impossible to hold, as my priest swiftly draws aggro from all targets except the one im wailing on, and by the time i get round to trying to fdraw aggro from the stray iv ran out of rage and end up spamming auto attack to get aggro. by which time the priest is dead.

    Runners, who somehow always manage to get away just intime to bring the rest of the instance back.

  2. #2

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    There's advice everywhere for specific things, but you'll only ever understand through trial and error. Sounds like the first thing you need to do is learn to tank, which a lot of people have to do coming from single boxing.

    Tanking is not just about hitting the right buttons at the right time. Most of it is knowing exactly what is going on at all times and what is going to happen and how to control it. Learning how to pull ranged mobs, how to position, how to be patient, determining patrol paths, controlling runners, aggro building.

    Personally, I don't like warriors. I feel I get a lot more out of a paladin tank than a warrior. And most people would recommend a paladin to someone starting out. If you're dead-set on a warrior, though, I'd suggest waiting a few more levels until you start getting the tools that will allow you to tank.

    As far as specifics :

    Defias Evokers/ranged mobs - Move your team far into a safe area. Attack the mob from range {gun/bow} and run your tank back, using a wall, rock, doorway, whatever you can to force line of site issues for the mob so that they are forced to come into your melee range.

    Hunter-type mobs are generally easier as you can deadzone them without having to use the environment for line of sight.

    Casters do not have a deadzone and need to be forced to the location you want them by either forcing them to melee {silences, mana drained}, long-pulling {purposely running out of their casting range and past your group until they are in range of your team, then running back up on them} or removing their line of sight {putting something between you and them that they can't cast through, which does not always work}.

    For dealing with the flamestrikes in particular, you should leave a set of movement keys that pass to your slaves. Most people use the arrow keys. I also have Q and E passed to my slaves so they can strafe.

    Patrols - Be patient. Watch for them before you pull anything. See where they go and how long it takes them to get back. Then pull the set of mobs you want AWAY. Do not tank mobs where they stand. This will save you a lot of headaches with runners and adds.

    Seeing everything - This is just something you have to learn. As other things become second nature you will have more time to keep an eye out on other things going on around you. Making use of areas you've already cleared will help keep things in front of you and buy you more time to see what's coming.

    Warrior tanking - I have very, very little experience with warriors outside of healing them, but I can't tell you how many times I have heard them screaming at DPS "WAIT FOR 5 SUNDERS!!!!" While that's not the warrior of today, you do still need to build aggro before you have your team engage. I'm guessing you don't have thunderclap yet, but you will need that for AOE threat. Another means of gaining threat on multiple mobs is sundering. Pull the group, sunder the first mob, tab/target the next, sunder, target the next, sunder. THEN start DPS. The autoattack + sunder should give you more than enough of an aggro lead over your team.

    If your priest is ripping aggro because of heals or shields, then don't precast. Until you have the tools to snatch AOE aggro {TClap, Cleave, tab/sunders} you'll have to hold heals back as much as DPS. This will only be a temporary problem. Eventually you will get the feel for it and you can precast without it meaning certain death for your priest.
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  3. #3

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    Long term warrior tank here, ever since vanilla WoW until some way into Ulduar. So I think I can give you some advice.

    If you tank as a warrior, you need a lot of micro-management. This is especially true at the low levels where you do not have every ability available to you yet. The real problem you are facing is, you only have active threat abilities, nothing passive. You basically have to hit and sunder each and every mob you fight.
    Once you get Thunderclap it gets easier, but be aware Thunderclap does not hit all mobs in range but is capped. The higher level you are, the easier it will get. You get a lot of useful pulling and threat tools rather late in the talent tree or while leveling.

    If you want to keep your warrior as the tank, I can recommend a few things. First of all, play him as you main character as he needs a lot of attention.
    Use the Sunder Armor glyph as soon as possible (it makes your Sunders hit two mobs instead of one unless they changed it), and then a glyph of Thunderclap. These abilities will be your main threat abilities for a while.
    Grab a shield spike if possible for your shield, as it counts to your threat when mobs hit you.
    Make a mouseover macro for your Sunder Armor skill, so you do not have to re-target every second.

    And the most important rule: have one main threat target. Keep pushing out threat on this target and have your dps go nuts on it. Do not try to AE (yet), it will be more or less impossible to hold aggro on a bunch of mobs while playing more than just the warrior.

    Warriors are probably the tanking class that needs most attention to details. If you want to go an easier way, switch to paladin or druid. I love warriors, played them forever. But for my multiboxing I chose something simpler so I can divide my attention to all of my characters.
    And if you stick with your warrior, good luck. Learn how to pull, learn how to line-of-sight, learn how to quickly change targets. Be aware of your surroundings.
    Best to learn to tank while not multiboxing though.
    Last edited by vorticone : 11-11-2009 at 09:16 AM

  4. #4
    Member Ughmahedhurtz's Avatar
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    Don't sweat the early instances as your gear, talents and abilities are mostly missing. Once you hit the 50s, you'll start getting some of your more bread&butter stuff and enough talents to start making a difference. Dungeons at that level are almost entirely dependent on the class as to whether you can cheese it or wipe repeatedly. :P My hunter group absolutely nuked every instance up through the levels. My mage group was nearly impossible at level until they got to around 40ish. SM was probably the first instance that didn't completely kick their ass.
    Now playing: WoW (Garona)

  5. #5

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    Yea like they said lol. I just finally started leveling my pally again i was at 60 now 10k from 65 in one day no boa gear. But decided to take him thru ramps and bf as a tank. So off i went i had my 4 lvl 75 shamans trucking behind him. Let me tell you without having divine plea whew it kinda stunk a tad.

    Although, i managed without a wipe which i was happy about. Its just like they said a lot of mechanices like spells learned and gear. Also yea level your tank maybe 2-3 lvls above the rest of your team for now. This will allow more threat at lower lvls going to him instead of your team itself.

    That is all i can say on this atm seeing how i am at work. But just keep trying youll get it. Me for one never liked warrior tanking. I tried druid not bad dont like aoe pulls with them. Dk nice but takes more damage then other tanks. So far i love the pally as a tank takes like no damage compared and easier to use. Since they have an auto agro buff.
    They say spiders have 8 legs well i guess im a rare and unimaginable specimen. Ive got 9 legs and my web comes from that 9th leg. HaHa.

  6. #6

    Default

    Izuel.....Izual's bro? Heh.

    Deadmines can be tough in the early levels. I'd wait until level 22 to run it. Some of the blues that drop in there last all the way until you ding 60, it's hilarious.

    I'd definitely not give up, if you're not on RAF, instance leveling is the most fun way to hit 60. Getting practice is really all it takes, I always had several deaths my first run through any instance on a new group.

    You might even wanna roll horde instead, they have much better instances to choose from, and a super easy one off the bat at level 10 that gets you some great practice. Wailling caverns is fun too.
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  7. #7

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    Practice, practice, and more practice, practice makes perfect, well near perfect. Anyways I did not do a warrior but its the same with all the others as well, at those early levels you are down to a single target until you get an ability where you can aoe aggro mobs, until then you are down to clearing 1-2 mobs any more and your dead.

    If you dont have any higher toons to play you are going to be going in there and wiping alot in order to learn the instance. If you have an 80 or something run in there and get reacquainted with the instance, or run your tank solo in there if you can get a group that is.
    Daggerspine Alliance: Phoebus(Tank), Soozanuna(Heals/Tailor), Angakak (Enchanter), Wakantanaka(Herb/Alch), Znakharka, Jonhyone(JC), Marious(Other Tank/BS), Magnux(Enchanter), Coyolxhauqui(LW)

  8. #8

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    My first instance with my team was Deadmine. And I wiped, wiped and wiped again.

    Especially that irritating patrole with two mobs that comes from behind. They always timed it so I was drinking and flattened my group :P

    I actually never finished the instance, but reached the final boss and wiped.

    Later on I have been in a few instances like SM, Zul Farrack and so on once in a while and I usually wipe a few times, mostly because I don't have alot of expirence with the instance.

    You get really good at playing your group when you instance, becasue its much harder than doing quest.

    Im doinig quest for gaining levels, as I enjoy this aswell and you feel so overpowered doing the normal quest with a group of 5 toons Also, I feel the time spend on wiping, tweaking my macros etc. to be able to do instances, is a waste of time for me as I don't had RAF from 0-60. But in the end I think its your personal preference which determines the way you want to level.

    I also diden't focus on gear at all during my 0-60 - as doing quests dosen't require as good gear as if you do instances. Got the quest gear and the odd random drop of gear from mobs, but other than that I just keept doing quest to gain xp.

    Once you hit outland all pre outland gear is totally nerfed.
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  9. #9

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    I love instances because they force me to use my players abilities more than I was. My five man's first ecounter with scarlet monestary was a real learning experience but I was forced to get my dps way up and develop better tactics. Outside of instances its very easy to get flabby/lazy with a group since you can pretty much destroy everything with basic abilities, poor tactics and low dps. After SM my group was a lot stronger.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by izuel View Post
    I wiped. Hard. repeatedly. about 2% of the way in. Thankfully nobody was around to see it.

    Anybody got some basic adgvice, i thought i was getting the hang of things until this little experience. I think the main probelms im encountering are:

    Defias evokers, who keep spam flamestriking my group (hitting far harder than i ever remember them being able to), which liquidates me before i can even move my team out of range.

    Mass pulling. With everything else to focus on its hard to keep track of the surroundings, and wanderers often bumble into my little skirmishes.

    Warrior fail tanking: anymore than one enemies are impossible to hold, as my priest swiftly draws aggro from all targets except the one im wailing on, and by the time i get round to trying to fdraw aggro from the stray iv ran out of rage and end up spamming auto attack to get aggro. by which time the priest is dead.

    Runners, who somehow always manage to get away just intime to bring the rest of the instance back.
    Like it was said, practice, practice, practice.

    Don't worry if you wipe before the first boss - you'll get to him eventually.

    Deadmines is pretty rough for low level characters, you really need to know your classes, and use *everything* in your arsenal. The pulls are'nt too bad, but positioning and aggro are a big deal, especially at the lowest level to get in the joint, as that makes you aggro magnets, and can pull mobs from further away.

    But you know what? It's okay - we all start out in the same place.

    Break it down. Work on the first couple of pulls, don't worry about experience, loot, or anything else but getting through them. Then work on the boss. Read instance guides to find out what you're up against.

    Keep an eye on Recount or any damage meters you have, and see if you can max your DPS up, get your priest as much spellpower as possible at the level your priest is at, and then, dig into tanking. There are a lot of great websites and blogs that explain what tanking is, how to generate threat, how to hold aggro, etc. I'm still learning too, and I'm running 80 Heroics. Also, start learning crowd control - nobody uses it at 80 anymore, but in the lower levels, it still makes a huge difference, you might survive a 3 mob pull, but that 4th could make the difference between success and a wipe.
    Prot Pally • Destro Lock • Holy Priest • Boomkin • Arcane Mage

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