Pally nerf inc

[Naysayer]

I simply meant to point out that in terms of PvP it would be great to see more than one viable team :-)

Yah, i agree. Sucks though that when someone finally found another comp, the class used is getting targeted in blue posts about being toned down. Blue actually called paladins a one man army.

[Naysayer]

I'd just excited to see a viable 5v5 that doesn't rely on another person.

Just wait, my holy/disc priests are almost 80.

[Kromtor]

This nerf is aimed at hurting the prot/holy hybrid healer spec, not ret. unfortunately it is a big nerf to ret which is already nearly absent in 5's. there are a lot of people complaining/pointing this out on arenajunkies.com but not many on the actual WoW forums. If you're leveling a paly group or ever plan on it you might want to go there and put your 2 cents in. I'd hate to see ret nerfed before anyone else gets to have any arena fun with it - especially when they're not even the intended target.

edit:
Please post on the thread I made in the WoW forums to save the rets or face the return of lawlret:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...77351712&sid=1

[CplBob]

Doh... And my Pally team just hit 60 as well

[Feider]

Paladin
Holy[*]Lay on Hands can no longer be cast on yourself.

I know this is a PVP thread but this makes me sad to for PVE. There goes a great oh shit button for tanking though.

[Khatovar]

I wouldn't get too wound up about any listed changes yet. Looks to me like they are just basically pulling the same old "spray and pray" nerf tactics to figure out what they hell they're trying to do. They'll screw up a lot of stuff, piss off a ton of people and then go a completely different route.

{Source} As you can see, we are trying some different things with some paladin mechanics.

The Aura Mastery change (to 6 sec duration) is one we think is appropriate. If I had to guess, this one will stick.

We are trying some things with Sacred Shield to make it more of a Holy tool and less useful for Ret and Prot (without being totally irrelevant). I don't have a lot of faith that the implementation on the PTR is the one we'll go with for a couple of reasons, but our overall goal is to make Ret less tanky and the Holy tree feel like it's the right one to focus on for healing. I would expect a Sacred Shield change of some kind though.

I wouldn't worry too much on the Lay on Hands change at this point. I don't want to promise we won't change the spell for 3.3, but our intent was to revert the others only change before it went out to the PTR, which is why we didn't patch note it. We have already changed it back on our local builds.

The paladin class isn't just supposed to be for support anymore, but at the same time, the original intent for many paladin abilities was to help the group. Over time however they have contributed into making the paladin into a "one-man army," able to play offensively, defensively and heal without say the stance changing or shapeshifting or sometimes event talent specialization required of other classes. Many of the LK balance problems we've had with the class are because of that core issue.

With that said, we're just not sure a Lay on Hands change really accomplishes much from a balance perspective, while it feels bad to lose such an iconic ability. We just don't think the bang for the buck is there on this change, which is why we reverted it. But I'm not going to promise we won't touch it.

In fact, I'm not going to promise anything with this post. Please don't dredge it up later to try and argue against any upcoming changes. I'm just trying to clear up some confusion.

[Coltimar]

This has been the story of paladin's since beta. Change, change change. Ret has always been a joke. For a while the joke was that the class wasn't viable (some argued they were but the mechanics didn't justify the argument), next the argument was that ret pallys were OP and now they are back to irrelevance. There hasn't been such major 'tinkering' of any other class. Every other class does basically what it started out doing at release.

I really love the class but have been tempted to give it up (even did for about 7 months) but I am drawn back invariably. Heck, even Boris rerolled! The nerf stick is something I'm used to I just wish they would settle on something and leave the class alone.

[Ellay]

So far those changes don't seem too bad, we'll see if they change it further --- anything is better though than the attention Shamans have gotten throughout the years.

[suprafro]

Mabey i'm missing something here (forgive me as I dont play paladins) but my understanding of how sacred shield works is that the FoL crit bonus is attached to a a proced shield, and when the proced shield is consumed by damage the FoL crit bonus is removed as well. Assuming thats correct, if 1 of Kromtors paladins gets FFd I cant imagine the shield proc + FoL buff lasting more then a split second vs any half decent 5v5 team, if thats the case it seems that even its current implementation it would be quite difficult to get a lot of millage from the FoL buff...is my thinking correct here or am I wrong about how the ability works?

Edit: I didn't realize that the damage shield itself can reproc every 6 seconds, I thought that was the FoL crit bonus specifically... damn thats pretty sweet (as currently implemented), but even so, just loosing that extra 1500-2k damage mitigation every 6 seconds shouldn't spell END OF THE WORLD for the "Kromtor comp" teams no?

[shaeman]

Pick any class and over time and you'll see a lot of nerfs and improvements.

The big problem with same class group composition is that it magnifies the affects of
every nerf or improvement, so a small change that might be an inconvenience to a solo player
makes a big difference to a multiboxer.

I wouldn't even say that the shaman was hit with nerfs anymore than any other class though.
I just think you take more notice of Nerfs to your class than nerfs to others.