So.. need advice on how to proceed.

[Mokoi]

OK, i have moved from the easy and simple quadbox shaman team, to the intricate world of 5 accounts and multiple

classes.

Now, I have been using a simple Keyclone and Macro setup, where my main toon was set as the focus on all three alts,

and then every spell on the alts used a simple [target=focustarget]. Now, this has served me well, when my main

shaman was always the same and my alts were always alts. however, this is no longer the case, and I have found the

transition from a single class with pre-determined leaders toa multiple-class changing leaders setup to be

incompatible with my current setup.

Here's the question.

Is it worth switching from keyclone, to another of the more detailed and diverse boxing programs out there (it is

mentioned several time that programs like IS boxer seem to have more options and flexibility than Keyclone and

others do.. but I have not tried them all, so i am looking for peoples opinions based on their experiences with

different programs.

If there is a better way to do things, I am willing to reinvent all my macros, all my previous misconceptions about

how my leader setup should perform, how my keybindings work and everything.

In a sense, I want to start again as I am sure that what I have got now is not the most efficient setup for me.

Changing leaders is hard, and I need a better way.

So, any advice, and WHY your way is better or what makes it different would be appreciated.

What my priorities are the ability to change teams (I have 16 lvl 80s of all kinds, 3 geared tanks, 3 geared

healers, 8 melee and a bunch of casters. I can bring Druids, Dks Paladins and Shamans in almost any combination of

5) This should be done without having to move macros around, and a lot of setup when switching from team to team. I

am hoping for a semless transition, of say, swapping my DK tank for my Bear tank, or my paladin tank for a specific

fight, or instance. being able to change specs on my paladin and switching leaders etc.

[olipcs]

I like to suggest two things here:

1. For 'specifiying a leader' use an FTL-Approach

2. For simple change-of-team-make-up use either ISBoxer or HKN+Jamba0.5-FTL-Helper

My reason for the FTL / What is an FTL :

An FTL (focusless, (targetless), leaderless) - Setup to specify the current 'leader' (so the toon the slaves assist/follow) doesn'T use focus or target to specify the 'leader' but the active window you are playing.

This is done by simply evaluating, when you press a key like '1', which window is active, and then send a predifiend combination of alt/ctrl/shift (a modifier-combination) to the slaves, identifying the leader.

So as an example if WoW1 is the active window, all slaves get a 'shift +1', if WoW2 is the active Window all slaves get a 'ctrl +1' an so on.

This is combined with a corresponding macro on each toon, that the reads like this:

/assist [mod:shift,nomod:alt,nomod:ctrl,target=Toon1][nomod:shift,nomod:alt,mod:ctrl,target=Toon2]...
(with Toon1 beeing the toon on WoW1, Toon2 the toon on WoW2...)

This macro is then bound to a button, and this button could be called in every 'cast' to automaticaly assist like:

/click ActionButton10 (the butto the FTL-Macro is bound)
/cast ...

What is realy nice in this setup is:
- You don't have to press a seperate-key if you want to switch the leader (like in the focus-approach), you simply only click on the window you want to use as a leader

Why do I suggest ISBoxer / HKN:

Although keyclone is fine and it can handle an FTL, the setup is quite complicated, as you have to define alot of keymaps/hotstrings to do so. (for KC and FTL in general see: http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=10968 ) (the con here is the price, the pro the quick setup (and superfast windowswitching))

Of course, this more doable in an PVE-enviroment, where you can use simple castsequences for dpsand so on, than in PVP (but for PVP i wouldn'T switch my teams often )

ISboxer has an integrated FTL-Helper, so setup there is realy simple (see this viedo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoZG6b9HjnM)
For HKN there are FTL-Templates, which help you with the configuration (see: http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=17555 and http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=16177 ) (the 'con' here is that it has no gui, but uses script (which for me is a pro not a con), the pro is, that its free (and can do alot kc can't)

How to handle changing teams in an FTL:

- If you use ISBoxer, you can simply do the updates with the ISBoxer-profiles and the integrated Addon (there you would have to ask Lax how exactly to do it, as I'm not using ISBoxer)

- If you use Keyclone/HKN you would have to change the ftl-macro.
For this I suggest to have a look at the upcomming Jamba-0.5-FTL-Helper module.
With this you can, after specifying which modifiers to use for which char once, simply update your ftl-macro by typing '/jamba-ftl update' on one of your toons.
For the Jamba-FTL-Helper see: http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=23377
and: http://www.dual-boxing.com/showpost....&postcount=114

(I know the last part of HKN-Templates+Jamba-FTL-Helper smells a littlebit like 'self-promotion', but as I 'developed' both, the FTL-Helper and HKN-Templates exactly for the reason of often changing-teams I think it might be interesting for you).

General thoughts, when often switching teams/members:

For switching member often, what I found important, is that you use the same general keys on all of your chars for te same functions:

I do this for example with the following keys:

^ (left of 1) - follow
1 - assist the leader
2 - dps-spam-button (healers havn't bound anything here, tank only simple-tank rotation)
3 - healer-button1 (3 = most used heal / shift + 3 = hot / alt + 3 = some way to heal the healer) on tank or focus
4 - healer-button2 (other healing stuff) on tank or focus
5 - AoE-heal-button
6 - AoE-Dps-Button
8 - Interrupts (this is not positioned good)

- for more advanced tank-skills I normaly use my mouse and click the abilities old-school-like
- for group-healing I use virtualButtons alligned under my grid, to induvidual heal group members, by simply clicking (with mouse-over-macros)

[Mokoi]

OK, interesting. I have a few questions..

I have a typical, tank dps, dps, dps healer setup, and I am in the middle of a hard fight (ToC Heroic, say which requires lots of fast, directed huge heals to keep random damage in check) ..

- You don't have to press a seperate-key if you want to switch the leader (like in the focus-approach), you simply only click on the window you want to use as a leader

If I click on my healers window to take control of the character and heal whoever needs it (assuming that the tank can stay put and tank whatever needs tanking while I heal) doesn't this mean that my "leader" changes to my healer and as such all alts try to start assisting the healer and not the tank, resulting in a stop of DPS and potentially tanking?

Is it possible to use a [target=(currentleader)mousetarget] or something so you can mouse over a healing target on your tank and have the healer heal them? or how is this achieved?

example: I am tanking HToC and Black Knight bitch throws one of my toons away and causes significant damage, and needs a heal before the next wave of AOE hits. how do you heal him without changing the tanks target? do you need [target=party3] style macros and just have 5 of them (this seems like a waste of space) or is there an easier way to do it? Also, if I am forced to use [party1] style macros, how does this work in BGs when I can't be sure that my toons will be in the same group? or a raid where the RL splits shamans for totems etc?

- for group-healing I use virtualButtons alligned under my grid, to induvidual heal group members, by simply clicking (with mouse-over-macros)

this.. what character screen are you using to click this? If you can do this from your tank (which I assume is the "lead" toon most of the time, how does it pass the command to the healer? If you are using the healer, how do you deal with the above mentioned problem of DPS targeting?

Also, I am anxious about monopolizing every single ctrl+__ alt+__ shift+__ combo i have, as I use them, do you not find this interferes with how many buttons you can press? there doesn't seem to be enough single buttons handy enough in the heat of battle to accomplish everything with these modifiers tnagled up with FTL.. maybe I am wrong, that's why i am asking =)

thanks for any advice guys, I am excited about maybe trying to fix all my bad habits =)

[olipcs]

If I click on my healers window to take control of the character and heal whoever needs it (assuming that the tank can stay put and tank whatever needs tanking while I heal) doesn't this mean that my "leader" changes to my healer and as such all alts try to start assisting the healer and not the tank, resulting in a stop of DPS and potentially tanking?

In an normal FTL-Setup: YES.
But: I use a slightly modified system, which I call a 'target-and-hold'-FTL, which only 'acquires' a new target for the slaves, if:

- They don't have a target
- The target is friendly
- The target is dead
- I specify my slaves to (newly) assist my leader (with '1')

..so in your case as long as the current target doesn't die and you didn'T press the 'assist-key' when at the healer, they wouldn't change the target.
I achieve such a behavior, simply by adding a '/stopmacro [harm,nodead]' befor the '/assist'
(hint: important for this is, that you 'out-source' the hole /stopmacro + /assist [mod..' to another button, which you then simply call with a '/click ACtionBut..' in your dps-macros, becasue otherwise the /stopmacro-part would also stop the dps-cast)

this.. what character screen are you using to click this? If you can do this from your tank (which I assume is the "lead" toon most of the time, how does it pass the command to the healer? If you are using the healer, how do you deal with the above mentioned problem of DPS targeting?

-therefor I use mouse-broadcasting to my healer a lot.
I do so, by using Grid in combination with HKN and kgPanels(as a graphical clue) simulating 'virtualButtons'
The concrete implementation is quite dependen on your setup, but to get an idea, you might read the following:
http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?p=214701(here if you use the same modifiers as for the FTL, you could also do this with changing-toons (again jamaba0.5-FTL-Helper is of great use here)

and a not-so-good-for-changing-chars-solution (but with screenshots how this would look like) can be found here:
http://www.hotkeynet.com/phpBB3/view...emplates#p6936

(if you therefor need more infos, simply ask)

Also, I am anxious about monopolizing every single ctrl+__ alt+__ shift+__ combo i have, as I use them, do you not find this interferes with how many buttons you can press? there doesn't seem to be enough single buttons handy enough in the heat of battle to accomplish everything with these modifiers tnagled up with FTL.. maybe I am wrong, that's why i am asking =)

You are right, modifiers are a problem, but if you are using HKN (or ISBoxer) you can use a little trick:

- WoW can do different thinks, if you use the left/right version of a modifier by adding a 'l'/'r' befor it in the macros (so shift become lshift / rshift)
- With HKN and ISBoxer you can specify which (left or right) version of the modifiers you wan't to send (Keyclone has(had?) a bug here)

So what I do, is simply only use the right-modifiers for FTL, so that I can use the left-modifiers like normal, like this:

/assist [mod:rshift,nomod:ralt,nomod:rctrl,target=Toon1][nomod:rshift,nomod:ralt,mod:rctrl,target=Toon2]...
/cast [mod:lshift] Frostbolt;Firebolt

[Schwarz]

I haven't used ISBoxer yet but the only advantage over keyclone that I see is near instant swapping of the windows. With Keyclones latest release it has reduced the time to swap windows but it still takes 2-3 seconds. The videos of ISBoxer I have seen the swapping happens almost instantly.

I am wondering how a FTL system would be setup with all the toons you have.

3 choices of tank * 3 choices of healer * ~10 choices of dps = ~60 combinations

Not being a user of FTL is this the type of assist macro he is going to need to along the lines of

/assist [mod:shift,nomod:alt,nomod:ctrl,target=Toon1][nomod:shift,nomod:alt,mod:ctrl,target=Toon2][mod:shift,nomod:alt,nomod:ctrl,target=Toon3][nomod:shift,nomod:alt,mod:ctrl,target=Toon4][mod:shift,nomod:alt,nomod:ctrl,target=Toon5][nomod:shift,nomod:alt,mod:ctrl,target=Toon6][mod:shift,nomod:alt,nomod:ctrl,target=Toon7][nomod:shift,nomod:alt,mod:ctrl,target=Toon8][mod:shift,nomod:alt,nomod:ctrl,target=Toon9][nomod:shift,nomod:alt,mod:ctrl,target=Toon10][mod:shift,nomod:alt,nomod:ctrl,target=Toon11][nomod:shift,nomod:alt,mod:ctrl,target=Toon12][mod:shift,nomod:alt,nomod:ctrl,target=Toon13][nomod:shift,nomod:alt,mod:ctrl,target=Toon14][mod:shift,nomod:alt,nomod:ctrl,target=Toon15][nomod:shift,nomod:alt,mod:ctrl,target=Toon16]

Granted you could probably cut this down to 3 toons (the tanks). I think once you wrap your head around how FTL is supposed to work it isn't that hard to implement. I know at least personally I would like to figure out what the macros are doing not just have some tool generate everything for me. If you figure it out yourself (or with help from others who have already done it) then when something breaks you can fix it.

One thing you might want to look into is using the a system designed around party targets. I could see a system of macros where everythign is based off of target=party_ . If you always had your tank as leader than each dps could just assist party1 that way it would work no matter what tank you had at the moment.

Short Version: Your Software is fine tweak your Macros to what you want to do.