The d-b.com Community

[Svpernova09]

I think I can safely say Vecter isn't an Evilseed Minion.


IMO the d-b community is doing well. We just have a lot of users who have very strong opinions. But this is not a place to discuss who should, or should not be a moderator, (and I don't think that is for public discussion at all)

I replied a couple times to make sure a couple of points were clear, and I got roasted, but I really don't give a shit, because it's wowinsider, I don't have any respect for them to begin with. I was just doing my part to make sure misinformation was not being spread.

[Gadzooks]

To the OP -
You sound like one of Evilseed's minions.

Go look in the software forum - there is no bias here towards keyclone vs all of the FREE options. There are a bunch there. Way to create a "perceived" problem when there isn't on though.

Bottom line is Evilseed/Mousecloner/and his 30 other user names ARE NOT ALLOWED HERE. PERIOD. Anything else is.Is that really that hard to understand?

Why do many posts you make seem to encourage a flame war? At no time did I state any bias towards Keyclone, all I stated was it can be used as a bias in discussions such as the mentioned thread (which is was.) I even stated his presence on this site is completely justified. I totally understand Evilseed's banning on this site and I DID NOT STATE HE SHOULD BE ALLOWED. My concern was on OTHER sites that multiboxing is discussed and a negative perception is given to d-b.com should that be a concern as we want to promote a positive opinion about multiboxing in general.

Is that hard to understand?

WoW.com (formally wowinsider.com, one you linked in your original post) has been largely biased AGAINST multiboxing since day 1 - and they made that 110% crystal clear - and always have. You are doing nothing but stirring the pot here.

What's your point again, other than to give Tim Sullivan more publicity?

Which is why it's hilarious that they have Turpster (from the old WoW Radio podcasts) GUSHING about multiboxing on their podcast for the last 3 weeks, going on about how much he's loving it, and you can hear the main guy's teeth grit as he controls himself from nerd raging against it. He then makes a few passive aggressive remarks, and changes the subject. I've never been much impressed with him, but now that Turpster is a regular, I'll listen, because the guy is hilarious.

It's also ironic that they have Michael Sacco writing there, who, when he was a WoW GM (Belfaire) of the Customer Support Forums, was VERY supportive of this community and multi-boxing in general, especially with Vindree's efforts to support us and our playstyle there.

They may find themselves in the sticky situation of their writers forcing them to support multiboxing, if they're not careful.

[keyclone]

===
this keeps coming up... so i'll try to explain the circumstances that occurred. if this stokes the flames, i'll just remove it. this is meant as information to help understanding of the situation. it really isn't up for discussion at this point, so please don't
===

imagine this:
--
you spend 18 months building a community, tweaking the pages, addressing concerns, helping promote legal multi-boxing while cranking away to become #8 in the rankings. you run video streams on fridays, showing people how you take out something like 46 with your 5 shammies without breaking a sweat. the community has a spike of users, people are friendly, and the drama levels are low... if nonexistent.

that would be Ellay around march / april of last year (2008 ).

then imagine this:
--
you find a community with a lot of users and no ads. you realize you can sell the ad space if you can just get that community to move to your area. how would you do that? simple. infiltrate ... infuriate... frustrate... and then offer an alternative. this is how you get an entrenched community to move. then apply this to thotbot... offering wowhead as an alternative. no one was ready, and bang... you get the crowd, and sell out. you get bored... you see another commmunity that is starting to move in members... and no ads. untapped. you decide to contact the owner and see what happens next

that would be Tim around march / april of last year (2008 ).

he proceeds to contact the main contributors of the forums and the owner. we offer for him to join the community and help it grow. he goes on about his marketing contacts and how he could steal the community if he wanted to. he brags about what happened to thotbot. he demands 95% ownership of dual-boxing.com along with 85-90% rights of another companies product (Solid ICE and keyclone).

now... imagine you were offered 5% for something you built because you loved it and had too much fun with it. something you paid for out of your own pocket for the thousands of users. and now some tool walks up and tries to verbally strong arm it from you.

just how far would you tell him to shove it?

from that point, his forum assualt crew goes to work. infilitrating. infuriating. in comes the drama. the DDOS attacks happen only a couple of times, no way to prove anything, of course. drama continues. he tries to strongarm software from another contributor... the contributor tells him to shove it, and leaves... the software has been unsupported since. (this helps tim as he has successfully taken out a competitor). then comes his first piece of software. he pays some guy offshore to produce it. claims it is blessed by Blizzard. they balk and say no. he tries using multiple user names to talk up his product, like any good gold spammer... and gets punted / banned.

then comes the next bit of software. blant ripoff. no creativity. like this type of person cares. he tries mod'ing the wowwiki pages to boost himself... gets caught... wiki edit war ensues. it is decided by the wowwiki mods in an irc that he was being a douche, and they banned him for 30 days from wowwiki (link ). his response? he posts four(4) banner ads on the pages. meanwhile, once in a while someone with a low (<5) count comes in talking about his product... this is about visibility and getting his product associated with the established products of the community, thereby trying to get credibility. if anyone says anything, attack them.

this is how the game is played. don't think so? check out the digg page i had for keyclone (link )... also check out his (link ), and yes... he is also timgt

his latest ploy was to dupe a writer over on wow.com (link )

we don't talk about his products because we don't want to give him the visibility or credibility. even if you talk about how bad is sux, that is still giving him some credit and will drive people to see it. in advertising... there is only one form of bad advertisement. it's not bad press or good press. NO press is bad advertisement.

this is WHY we ban conversations. even talking about this is driving attention in his direction.

i hope that explains it.

[Khatovar]

What I am asking is if external discussions should be a concern of the community or we just drop it and not worry about it? Do we participate in those discussions to try and protect the community? How can we move this community forward in a positive and productive way?

"Try and protect the community" often degenerates rapidly when you step off your "turf" onto someone else's. This site has been around long enough and many of its' members long enough to create its own good name, we don't need to go elsewhere to protect that. It's a fine line between protecting your name and being percieved as overzealous and downright malicious. Once you start seeking out wrongs to right, especially in communities where people are looking for arguments and drama, most everything you try to do is going to end up counter-productive.

People who want information will end up here one way or another. The drama and assorted crap stirred up by trolls will die out when there's no one to feed the fire.

[Vecter]

===
this keeps coming up... so i'll try to explain the circumstances that occurred. if this stokes the flames, i'll just remove it. this is meant as information to help understanding of the situation. it really isn't up for discussion at this point, so please don't
===

.....

i hope that explains it.

Understood and aware that my purpose would have been better served without specifically mentioning any thread or anyone and generalized the question. Live and learn by experience as I will with this thread Thanks to all for taking the time to respond.

[Moorea]

I was listening to his stream - he wants to make a web site basically to compete/replace d-b.com - and when I and another tried to point out some facts he removed the link and gave 10 min ban to one guy

He also said that the admins of d-b.com are circulating keyloggers and people should avoid coming to this site ! maybe someone can sue him for libel ?

He also said he wants to contact "the jamba guy" to "host jamba on his site" - I hope jafula will not fall for this

He didn't answer my question about whether people who already fell/paid for mou$ecloner are getting his new scam for free or not... probably not

Edit/update: And when I mentioned there are free alternatives (without even saying which ones); my message was purged and I got banned from the chat channel - how lovely...

[Negativ1337]

Yeah well,

Basically he's like a 30 some year old programmer that thinks he got everything worked out and that he can get everyone to work for him.

I used PwnBoxer and its bad. Sometimes after pressing to pause key your clones are walking to some directions for no reasons (almost seems like the keys that you dont want to send: WASDQE he sends those after the pause, like he saves them up). The mousecloner feature isn't working. And he stole my idea for making a videoblog.

Enough smack for him, for the rest i think dual-boxing.com dont want any other multiboxing software promoting on their website because then Keyclone will have concurents. I can understand this but its kind of lame not giving anyone a chance. I mean, were part of an COMMUNITY if anyone makes a program or an addon its to help these guys browsing here out, and not to fight a war about it. Were like brothers, were not like America and Vietnam.

To all you guys thats gonna flame this, save the trouble since im not going to read this thread anymore.

Kind regards,

Negativ1337

[keyclone]

My concern was on OTHER sites that multiboxing is discussed and a negative perception is given to d-b.com should that be a concern as we want to promote a positive opinion about multiboxing in general.

if they want to know why he was banned (tim will say we were being mean) ... give them a link to what i said above

@Negative1337
read my post above if you actually want to understand.

as for 'competition' against keyclone on d-b.com, oh phuleeze. there are numerous other products. better products then his. more mature products than his. it has nothing to do with the product and everything to do with the individual and his intentions.

as for being a 'community'... one of the main rules for the community is not to post links to other multi-boxing forums, bleeding this community of its users.

[keyclone]

Edit/update: And when I mentioned there are free alternatives (without even saying which ones); my message was purged and I got banned from the chat channel - how lovely...

happened to me when i mentioned dual-boxing.com. insta-perma-ban (ip i think)

tim understands the concept of visibility and information spreading.

[Tight]

Gurb, bring me some popcorn.

This subject is coming up almost every day more or less.. Why do we spend time arguing about some jerk named Tim. Every one knows hes a fakk up.
Why not argue about something ells? take taxes for example. Or where the fakk is aXXo ?( Or the fact that they cut the tendons in the neck and chop off arms of the children in Africa, just so they cant use a rifle.
(ok i know im far away now from the subject) inch:

This whole discussion has been blown out of proportion. How hard is it to just leave it alone? At least a few weeks?
Sure it could be missdirecting the new ppl, but hey this discussion has been out there for a long time.

BE AWARE OF BOGUS SITES AND LAMERS.
(sry just had to do that)