is there a reason why loads of people are gimping themselves by using focustarget instead of targettarget?

[aboron]

I'm rather fond of just using target for your actual target, i know it seems like a novel concept any more. :P

And for setting that target, i just have an FTL style button, which basically uses a "targetexact" for any one of the 5 based on who's current main, and then assists and just leaves the assist target up. This is very easy for PvE, I can understand there might be a good reason not to leave a target up in PvP, but i don't do it. It also lets me keep dpsing the same target i've got all my tank's threat against while the tank can feel free to swap targets and build up a little pre-agro on the up and coming target, or and new mobs that have come along and like the healer a lot.

I do have to hit the button each time i want dps to change targets, but really it's not that hard to do. And since the target button is FTL, I can just start driving from a new main at any moment. Of course, having innerspace automatically rewrite the targetexact macro for the group i'm playing when I load up the team is really what makes the whole thing an option in my opinion.

[Tdog]

I think the title says it all

I've noticed a general shift away from targettarget in the last year - why is that? Is it because all the example macros use focustarget or is there some other reason. Has everyone forgotten targettarget? Why would people use focustarget when targettarget is plainly superior?

Physical damage classes. Cannot autoattack/autoshot something that isn't your current target. Consider how many hunters, paladins, DKs, rogues and feral druids (WOO!) are currently being boxed and I think you'll have your answer.

This, as I am 5 boxing paladins atm

[keyclone]

i do not believe the speed of the target switch matters if it is targettarget or focustarget. either way, the new target info needs to go up to the server, turn around, and go back down into each of your alts before being usable. (think 2 * your latency)

as for which is better... i dunno. i don't have any issues with pipswapping and using the same pip swap keys to set the new focus.

as for cc, set your '/target focustarget' or '/assist [target=focustarget,exists]' macro to a round-robin key and proceed to get new targets... hit key... get new target, repeat. this should allow you to sheep targets while continuing to caster-dps focustargets

[Simulacra]

Leaderless/Targetless - Focus Based Hydra[/url] system and a user of the FTL system under Innerspace and a previous user of a targettarget based system I can tell you that I like the FTL the best.

When I was using Focus Based Hydra I ran into problems with my mages and being able to CC. Focus was taken obviously so I worked my CC around target based macros and it worked but wasn't as reliable as I'd have liked. All said and done it was frustrating to try and utilize.

The FTL system is VERY reliable, however it requires a significant amount of setup that I'd never have done without ISBoxers native support of it. The way I have it setup now is flawless, works in and out of vehicles, and has absolutely no drawbacks for me... the ONLY issue I ever have is when one of the clients (or all) get a chat box open, but tahts going to bugger ANY system since chat boxes eat keystrokes.

My only comment here is why make things more complicated for the sake of making them more complicated? FTL is exactly that IMO. Maybe in PvP it would make a difference, but in PvP? Ummm, ya. I'm doing end-game PvE stuff and FTL has never even crossed my mind. And I'm also a software-less boxer, so I don't even see those extra features as benefits. Just more setup time and complication to the system.[/quote]fur - good to see you hot and bothered. BUT could you please tell us why targettarget is not 'plainly superior' (which if course you must realise was a statement meant to invoke a response which is did lol) - I genuinely want to know your reasoning as just saying something is fail doesn't really add much mate.

[Simulacra]

ok fur - lets go through this:

1 - what target is this? when would my target not be targeting what I want it to target? I have my box team and I'm targeting something that I want to target - sorry I don't get your point and see point 2 before you go off lol.
2 - If you need to set your slaves target to another toon to hand over control then simply type /target toon - sames thing as focus.
3 - The mechanics of focused based macros are the same as the mechanics of target based macros - they both provide the same amount of flexibility.
4 - Why is targettarget superior? because it's faster when switching targets. How do I know that? Because I've observed the difference between targeting systems in the same sessions - try it.
5 - FTL? This thread isn't about FTL, it's about generating a discussion based around different targeting systems.
6 - Again this is not about FTL.

point 2 expanded a bit: if your system is totally targettarget based then it works exactly the same way as a focustarget setup only faster when the target is switching targets - this - is the point I'm trying to get across. You can do all the same stuff only your response time will be faster, you may not notice it if you have low latency but if you have high latency like me then you will definitely notice the difference, plus it allows the use of focus for heals etc - taken that it's faster and faster is better, it follows that targettarget is 'clearly superior'.

[Simulacra]

Warlock & Priest Macro[/url]. This was my very first team, ever so there were some thing I missed or would do differently now - so be nice. We actually had a bit of a discussion on FTL vs Focus in my thread too.
My play style was dot dot dot run, new target - dotting as many targets as I could at a time. Before I went FTL on these guys I would often have an alt refresh dot #1 or start with dot #2 on the new mob with dot#1 going into the nether. Of course RAF was announced shortly after I made the group and they were abandoned.

So I think it boils down to what you are doing, how you are doing it and how much time you want to invest in your set up - at least to just get playing.
I think FTL is mandatory for any serious PvP or anytime where you have to switch targets fast all the time.
Focus is easier to set up.

wow such a nice simple setup - I'm going to try that but of course I'll make the obligatory change to :
1 macro
/target<leader name>
/assist target

lol

[Simulacra]

So your alts target you main all the time for mob targeting purposes. Right, got that. You're basing all your DPS macros on targettarget instead of focustarget and using more macro commands to make sure your alts target your main all the time - in a similar manner to using focus.

The latecy factor? That is highly subjective to the end user's personal experience - it does not make it superior one way or the other, because results vary.
You mentioned using FOCUS for heals... so now you've got macros setting target (main) and FOCUS? So you're actually doing more work and making things more complex.

If you hit TAB (by accident) - do your DPS macros automatically re-target your current "MAIN"? Or do they blast away at another target - potentially in error? (this can't happen with a FOCUS setup unless your FOCUS changes targets)

Again, I'm failing to see the benefit here. You're using two systems (targettarget and focus) to do two jobs - DPS and HEALS. What's the benefit for the added setup time and extra layer of complexity?yes

1 - yes
2 - since replacing focustarget for targettarget doesn't actually cost anything and since latency itself can change even on good connections why not use it and guard against high latency? As for heals I don't use focus - I use target and don't use focus for anything, so it's not more complex, I was simply pointing out that if you wanted to use focus for something you can.
3 - No, tab is in my do not pass list.
4 - not using focus for anything so there's no double up.

here's my target macro on all my shammies bound to the tilde key - I have 5 keys to switch mains if needed

/target [target=Aztrid]

the follow macro:

/follow

here's a typical cast macro:

/cast [target=targettarget] Lightning Bolt;Lightning Bolt

here's a chain heal macro:

/stopcasting
/use 13
/use 14
/cast blood fury
/cast elemental mastery
/target [target=withthose]
/cast  Chain Heal
/targetlasttarget

here's a tank heal macro:

/stopcasting
/use 13
/use 14
/cast blood fury
/cast elemental mastery
/cast [target=target] Lesser Healing Wave

I could remove the [target=target] as it's already targeted

here's a heal self macro:

/stopcasting
/cast [target=player] Lesser Healing Wave
/targetlasttarget

here's a heal the named macro - this one was for thrall in some quest in CoT I think - not sure

/stopcasting
/target [target=Thrall]
/cast  lesser healing wave
/targetlasttarget

I did at one point use a focus macro for melee, but I switched that to
target - not sure if it works as I really have'nt a need to melee.

but if you do need to then:

/follow target

/assist [target=target, exists]

/startattack

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I think Fur's point here is that you're adding an extra layer of complexity by having to make damn sure your alts are targeting the correct person to auto-assist. With focus, once it's set, it's always correct no matter what, unless you lag out or get MC'd, and those caveats all still apply to your targettarget setup.

It could also be argued that you lose the use of your "target nearest enemy" keybind AND lose the ability to independently target things for CC by default (aka no having to set focus at all) before the pull and then just concentrate on DPSing when you're setup to use targettarget in your macros, where you're saying you can use focus to target the CC. Put another way, the guys that use focus for assigning a leader are front-loading their strategic targeting and then being able to just mash DPS/heal keys and have it Just Work(tm) whereas you're back-loading it, having to constantly monitor it during the fight. That's basically my perspective anyway.

I'm also with Fur that CC is vastly overrated in most situations.

The bottom line, though, is that everyone's setup will be slightly different based on hardware, software, classes/talents, macros, playstyles and your chosen fight strategy. More choices = GOOD. Since every one of these methods has proven successful at just about everything, there is no way to Do It Wrong(tm).

Me, I'm ultra-lazy. I worship the God of Labor Saving Devices. I basically have my macros condensed down to 3 keys.

1. My /follow and /focus set key (which automagically adjusts for leader death)
2. My MAKE IT DIE NOW PLZ key (aka Donkey Kong key, aka I Just Got To A Good Part Of The Movie I Was Watching And I Need To Spam One Key To Finish This Pull Without Looking While I'm Watching This Scene)
3. My Heal The Tank And The Group key (gotta love Wild Growth, eh?)

[Simulacra]

I think Fur's point here is that you're adding an extra layer of complexity by having to make damn sure your alts are targeting the correct person to auto-assist. With focus, once it's set, it's always correct no matter what, unless you lag out or get MC'd, and those caveats all still apply to your targettarget setup.

It could also be argued that you lose the use of your "target nearest enemy" keybind AND lose the ability to independently target things for CC by default (aka no having to set focus at all) before the pull and then just concentrate on DPSing when you're setup to use targettarget in your macros, where you're saying you can use focus to target the CC. Put another way, the guys that use focus for assigning a leader are front-loading their strategic targeting and then being able to just mash DPS/heal keys and have it Just Work(tm) whereas you're back-loading it, having to constantly monitor it during the fight. That's basically my perspective anyway.

I'm also with Fur that CC is vastly overrated in most situations.

The bottom line, though, is that everyone's setup will be slightly different based on hardware, software, classes/talents, macros, playstyles and your chosen fight strategy. More choices = GOOD. Since every one of these methods has proven successful at just about everything, there is no way to Do It Wrong(tm).

Me, I'm ultra-lazy. I worship the God of Labor Saving Devices. I basically have my macros condensed down to 3 keys.

1. My /follow and /focus set key (which automagically adjusts for leader death)
2. My MAKE IT DIE NOW PLZ key (aka Donkey Kong key, aka I Just Got To A Good Part Of The Movie I Was Watching And I Need To Spam One Key To Finish This Pull Without Looking While I'm Watching This Scene)
3. My Heal The Tank And The Group key (gotta love Wild Growth, eh?)

true it was a pain until I started using stickytargeting - had a wipe or 2 before I figured that one out - now the target is the target without any issues

I'd love you to post your macros

[Ughmahedhurtz]

OK, heh. Druid macros.

The follow/focus set macro (bound to my "move forward" button so I just tap it and they all follow and refocus automagically; very intuitive):

/follow dondeltoro

/focus [target=doncavallo, exists, nodead]
/focus [target=donramirez, exists, nodead]
/focus [target=donbatista, exists, nodead]
/focus [target=dondeltoro, exists, nodead]

/follow focus

/script SetView(4);SetView(4);

The Make It Die Now Plz macro (bound to my primary attack key):

/assist focus
/targetexact charming totem
/targetexact Frost Tomb
/targetexact Snake Wrap
/targetexact Web Wrap

#showtooltip
/dismount [noflying]

/stopmacro [noharm][dead]
/cast [stance:1] growl
/castsequence [stance:1] Swipe (Bear)(), maul, lacerate, Swipe (Bear)(), Swipe (Bear)(), maul, Mangle (Bear)()
/castsequence [stance:3] Mangle (Cat)(); [stance:5][nostance] wrath

/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/use [stance:1/3] scarab of isanoth
/use [stance:1] ancient draenei war talisman
/use [stance:5] cannoneer's morale
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

/script -- Don't start autoattack in tree/chicken forms
/stopmacro [stance:5]
/startattack

Tree autoheals (also bound to primary attack key):

/target [target=focustarget]
/stopmacro [noharm][dead]
/castsequence [target=focus] reset=5 lifebloom, regrowth, rejuvenation, lifebloom, null
/castsequence [target=player] reset=5 wild growth, lifebloom, null

Pretty straightforward stuff. I have specific healing keys set to individuals in case they get targeted, and another key to spam DoTs on things, but most of the time I'm either using the DoTs keys (for 5x boomkin dailies) or the main attack (for instances). Requires a minimum of targeting/spell decisions.