Gearing at 80 - Heroics as a multiboxed team - Worth it?

[Rin]

I'm writing this in the hopes that I can spark a discussion on the effectiveness of gearing in Heroic instances with a multiboxed team. Having leveled different teams and groups up to 80, I'm starting to believe that its faster to simply run raids (or run Heroics w/ one character) and get geared right away at 80, rather than dealing with Heroic dungeons as a 5-boxed unit. From what I have experienced, getting a group together for a 10 or 25 man raid (namely Naxxramas, since thats where the majority of the loot at 80 comes from), is relatively simple. I've never logged on and not seen at least 5-10 different raids form during any given night. Having participated in these PuG raids, the only complaint that I care to make is that sometimes people leave early (RL > WoW anyways), so the raids don't always complete, but for the most part, PuG teams can clear the dungeon in a casual evening (~4 hrs, 6 hrs if the dps is terribad (~1500)).

The other thing that I've noticed is that you don't need to be well geared in order to deal with the entry level raids. I have cleared Naxx with an average of about 1500 dps (some people coming in at under 1000 - don't even know how this is possible to have such low numbers at 80, unless someone is in ALL greens, but whatever). In a complete raid run, typically I find myself winning 2-4+ items (plus off spec stuff if no one wants it). In one run of both Naxx 10/25, one of your characters could end up with 4-8+ items, plus 16 emblems of Heroism, and 16 emblems of Valor.

When I think about my characters as a multiboxed team, I realize that immedieatly at 80, you're not going to walk into Heroic Azjol-Nerub and clear it (if you do, more power to you). Nor are you going to do this in UP or the Halls of Stone. It seems like if you pick a day to split one character apart from your team, you can get a lot more done. Last Saturday for example, I took a break from my Ulduar raid shammi, and began working with my other elemental shaman. By the end of the day I ended up with a couple of off-spec items, 40+ emblems of heroism, ~150 gold after repairs (no dailies), and 2-3 epics. I went from about 1600 dps in the morning to 2500 dps by the evening. All I'm missing now on Shaman #2 are raid based items (this week), before I can break 3k with her as well.

All too often, I see people on these forums either unable to complete an encounter because their not geared enough, or unable to do it because of the steep learning curve. Since I have only been 80 for two weeks on my new team and have I have one character nearly fully raid geared, while another one of my characters is "raid ready" at 2500 dps, It just seems to me like the "not geared enough" scenario can be fixed so easily that it amazes me that other's haven't just started out by gearing up 1 toon at a time. At this rate, and unless if I just /quitwow I'd be amazed to say that I wouldn't have my entire 5-box team in 4/5 7.5+ by the end of the month/early next month. I don't get why others would want to struggle through things when they can take the one character at a time method and accomplish more. Thoughts?

[Bollwerk]

I've thought a lot about this too. I also feel that it's more effective to just run PUG Naxx with one toon at a time, rather than run Heroics. The problem that I run into though is that many PUGs I've been in are horrific and can't clear in a single night. =(

I do think it's nice to have the option to do either at least. More choices is always good. I would like to see more 5-man instances like Magister's Terrace though, where all the boss drops are epic when on Heroic.

[Greythan]

You can do heroic Gundrak in shiny greens.

There are a ton of upgrades in that heroic alone for a newly minted 80 team and it gives you 2100 rep along with 5 emblems per run. Takes no more than 60 to 90 minutes for the non-overgeared.

I didn't leave there until I had some gear, but my few runs of heroic UK lead me to believe that could get on farm status pretty quickly for a new 80's team as well. More upgrades.

So, between rep being generated on ALL FIVE toons concurrently, drops, and emblems its a pretty fast and predicable way to gear up at 80.

[Enndo]

Getting a pug for naxx is really easy, but lately ive been having more fun running my lowbie 5 man teams through old school instances like mara and sunken temple,its been so long since ive been able to run those instances since no one is ever trying to do them anymore, ill get a team to 80 one day lol but for now i like the pre bc stuff.

[Taliesin]

Depends what your goal is, I guess.

Mine was partly to have the challenge of doing things solo. Right after hitting 80 and setting up my macros, I was doing H UK (skipping Prince) and Drak'tharon (skipping Novos) nightly for epics and emblems with my mixed group. By the end of a week, I was doing H HoL and Gundrak. Didn't take much longer than a week to have several epic drops on each toon, exalted with Kirin Tor on each (more items/enchants), lots of DE'd shards for pattern buying, and enough emblems to at least buy an emblem belt/neck/whatever (not quite gloves or chest yet) on each toon.

I hadn't really thought about doing Naxx, since this was back in the "you must have 2000+ DPS or go away" days of Naxx pugging at the beginning. I at least wanted to get pretty close to raid hit cap before I got into raiding, but it's not necessary. Naxx 10 is the same item quality as heroics (not counting KT), so it's just a matter of deciding what items give you the best itemization you are looking for on a particular toon. Naxx definitely has some items I want, like set gear for the bonuses, but nearly every heroic has at least some other item I want (heck, the defense trinket from Loken on regular HoL was pretty huge). What I didn't like was the big time sink I would have to sit through for probably several nights for maybe 2-3 items that I might win rolls on, and for only one toon.

If you can get into a Naxx run, then its probably worth it, but those nights where you don't have a group, you might as well do heroics for even more items. Heroics can get all your guys more Naxx capable faster than running Naxx individually, in my estimation. But if Naxx is your goal, then I wouldn't tell anyone not to do that. Do what you think is more fun.

[Svpernova09]

The issue I run into on my server, is there are TONS AND TONS of Naxx Pugs, but most are very, very terrible and you'll spend an entire night on 1 boss. I took my main shaman as resto (with decent gear, crafted epics and BoE's) to Naxx 10, and it was a clusterfuck of epic proportions. So for now I stick to gearing my toons in crafted epics to meet some miniumums to get into guild alt runs, or try to pug with more respectable people. Trouble is, there are many more bad pugs than good ones. Everyone wants to be carried. I don't mind doing the legwork, but I refuse to carry idiots that just want PURPLEZ.

[Hachoo]

5 boxing heroics to get gear is gauranteed gear. In multiple ways - you get emblems, you get blue and epic gear drops, you get rep that will allow you access to epic rep items, and they can be done very fast with no reliance on anyone else.

If you KNOW you have a very good Naxx group, there is a decent chance naxx will get you more gear, but that would depend on a lot of factors - you will be rolling against a lot of other people, if you're 5 boxing they might only let you roll once, if you're single boxing you'd have to run naxx 5 times which would take something like 30-40 hours in a pug.

Bottom line is you should do both. You can only run naxx once a week, but you can run heroics every day. especially when you first start out the gear from heroics will be great. I can honestly say I've never successfully pugged naxx - mostly because it takes >2hrs most of the time for the pug just to find a full group and get to the instance and start, and then if the pug falls apart due to a bad group you start over. Then factor in that you may not even win any drops and be stuck with only emblems.

The emblem/hr of naxx with a pug is much slower than the emblem/hr of heroics, especially if you factor in the heroic daily.

So a balance of both is good - but heroics are guaranteed gear, naxx isn't, and naxx would be far more frustrating on average. Also if you can't 5 box naxx, or you can 5 box it but can only roll once, then heroics will be much faster.

[Rin]

Thank you all for your responses. Please allow me to pose another question, if I may:

It seems like upon hitting 80 with a "fresh" team, there's only 2-3 Heroics that you can complete without ending up with ultra high repair bills. Since you can only do these 2-3 heroics (and since you're brand spanking new at 80, they're not going to go quickly), isn't it more effective to take 1 of your characters and simply PuG 6-9 of the Heroic dungeons (to get decently equipped) in one night? There's at least 1 upgrade in just about every heroic dungeon (not going to include badges here), and at this point in the game, odds are you will be the only uber needy character in your group. In theory (provided you gain at least 5 items in the night + enough badges to buy a shield :P ), wouldn't this make things easier to deal with for your multibox group?

For example, take a look at my non-Ulduar, "raid ready" (only 2,500 dps) character that I mentioned earlier: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ellowsh%C3%AEp

7 (6 drops, 1 badge) of her items she received in 1 day of running Heroics with random people. She also has some offspec enhancement naxx stuff. As you can see, most of those items come from the "harder" Heroics, that aren't going to be doable (without lots of dying) multiboxing, right away at 80. I guess that's why I feel it's more effective to take one character and gear it up. Please let me know your thoughts.

[Crucial]

The problem with PUGing to gear up is that it flys directly in the face of why a lot of us multibox in the first place. Not being subject to the whims of others for 4-6 hours at a time with the 'hope' of a drop. I suppose if you don't mind it could be a faster way to gear up you've got a good reliable group to lean on but it's dependant on a lot of the factors mentioned already above. If I could mutlibox raids with fellow boxers that would be my ideal situation, unfortunately I don't think theres anyone else on Durotan alliance side except for one other boxer. Time to transfer or re-roll....

[Hachoo]

For many of the heroics, only your tank being geared matters a lot. And the good thing about that is you can get your tank into about 2/3 epic gear, maybe 3/4, the moment you hit 80 with a decent amount of money. As a multiboxer, making money is trivial at worst, so getting enough to just throw epic gear at your characters shouldn't take too long if you just finish all the quests in storm peaks, icecrown, etc.

Funny enough I just finished leveling my Druid solo boxing to 80, and I actually dinged 80 about halfway through zul'drak, leaving me half of zul, all of sholazar, storm peaks, and ice crown for leftover quests. If I could have done this x5 multiboxing it would be a crapton of money. Even as a solo boxer its quite a lot of money left.

Just something to think about. Now if you dont have the money or are unwilling to spend it, then jumping right into a heroic as a boxer at 80 is very tough. My recommendation is to at least get 5 epic weapons, and then buy every tanking epic available at 80 (valor bracers, tempered titansteel gear, titanium earthguard gear, etc).

IMO any way you look at it pugging heroics on 1 character is just way, way slower than multiboxing heroics. Unless you get a really good pug group, which you probably won't if you just hit 80, it will take you at least as long to pug 1 heroic as it will take to complete it as a multiboxer wiping 7-10 times during the run