EQ2 - Server population

[Herc130]

I used 3 healers in EQ1 and will use 2 in EQ2. I expect with a guardian tank, I will really only need 1 for the most part, but difficult fights, probably 2 healers will come in handy. Not to mention if you pull multiples....it's nice to have a second healer to heal your support classes, while the primary healer keeps healing the tank or whatever the situation may be. I am going with Guardian, Templer and warden for sure. It was a toss up between the guardian and berserker, but I am sticking with EQ1 mentalities and choosing pure classes. I don't have experience in EQ2 to really support my choices, but if EQ2 follows EQ1, pure classes are always the way to go and guardian is a pure tank.....berserkers are DPS tanks (they made a trade off.....I think it's a trade down, sure they can tank same encounters, but how much more healage? Tank DPS in the scope of a raid is a non-issue. For a group, still not a big deal) .....I want a tank, I will have DPS classes to do DPS. I think it is very important to pick the right tank for what you want, because if EQ2 is like EQ1, your groups (guilds) capabilities is almost always based on what your tank can tank. I have wiped plenty of times with my box crew and it's never been because my rogue couldn't fight anymore or my mages went OOM or my healers went OOM, it is always because my tank didn't have the metigation/AC/hitpoints to flatten out the incoming damage to allow my healers to safely heal him or he couldn't keep agro. So, guardian and templer was an obvious choice, Warden for the HoT spell to complement the templer, but besides that you get a pretty good utility, travel and DPS class, so again an easy choice for a multibox crew. Even a 4 box crew. After that, I am not so sure, but I think I will go with a scout class (probably trabadour) and two casters (probably conjuror and illusionist). Not sure if I want warlocks or wizards as they may pull too much agro. Conjuror and pet probably does as much DPS...without the really big booms and if conjurors are like mages in EQ1, then their pets are a great offtank. I don't want my DPS class to do huge spike damage....at least not so spiky that they draw snap agro from the mob. I want a DPS caster class that does close to their potential without drawing too much attention on themselves. I still might do 2 conjurors lol or maybe a necro and a conjuror. ALthough an illusuionist gets pets too from what I hear and at higher levels can perma charm mobs to be pets (sure that comes with limitations).

Server population, I leveled a guardian and berserker from 1 to 10 on AB, Nek and Crushbone this morning. AB usually had 50 to 60 people in every area I was at. The other two servers were usually 20 and below.

[Starbuck_Jones]

I'm not sure how it is now, but I played a paladin. Using player crafted normal gear with imbued chest/legs and rare metal weapon and shield. Combined with alchemy for more procs and damage shields, I just auto attacked my way through everything and cast heals if needed and it was rare, usealy just boss or group ^^^ mobs. I was able to solo everything but for the hardest encounters like Nek Forest castle and that weird epic blob thing in that stormlord castle in Antonica. Granted I only got to level 40+ and Desert of Flames was the expansion that came out when I quit.

I remember doing the math on all the procs from the weapon, imbues, self buffs, and alchemy, I had 6 potential procs on each swing and the math was like a 63% chance of one of them going off. It was crazy. More if you used a mastery cooldown.

[Noxxy]

...or even Berserker I suppose for the Tank

I totally agree with Herc's explanation re pure tanks - and this is one of the reasons it's hard to pick a 4-man.

Basically, the smaller the group the more 'hybrid' the classes (to double up on the missing chars). The larger the group, the more 'pure' the classes. IMHO a 4 man is just on the crux between between being called a small or large group.

As for a zerk - sure, fantastic DPS, but if he's your MT... To better explain myself, I am basing my group assumptions on the gear you can easily obtain either through drops or camping - AC on the MT is critical - MIT IS KING - this is where you will be concentrating the most of your time (and pps if you can buy anything but you won't) obtaining stuff, other classes AC comes a very distant second.

Now - if you asked could a zerk be a MT and run RoK and simple TSO stuff before last week I'd say sure - you'd get beat up a bit but your Advanced shard AC and jewelry could take it - now...The latest issue with obtaining tank (or any class) AC is that 'grey sharding' is now illegal (i.e., starting a TSO instance with a lvl 50, then all unmentored back to 80 and basically grey ganking) - before, this was 'acceptable' or more appropriatly, SOE turned a blind eye to it - what it basically meant was that a geared bunch of 80s could grab 8 shards a night each for somewhere around 1.5hrs

What this means was that a team could grind its way to 80 - in basic hand me down grey cr@pola - then when they dinged 80 - could grey shard (still in their grey ac) and within a few weeks be in the top of the range advanced shard AC + jewels - now, the cost in shards for that setup is easily in the hundreds of shards - let me see, off the top of me head a 3 set of jewelry costs 45 shards so grab 2 of those = 90 shards per char, then add in basic AC at 110ish?? shards then upgrade to advanced AC for another 100shards?? So let's make it 300 shards per character at 8 shards a night = say 5 weeks - So 5 weeks to go from crappy grey ac to the highest easily obtainable AC you can get without raiding

Now...if you wanted to get this uber set - you could 'maybe' get say 4 shards a night (I am assuming you do Icy Scone and DF plus get the bonus shards) but that would take at least 2+hrs every night all night - your eyes would be bleeding by 100 shards let alone 300+

So - in consideration of the 'now' and the fact that you may be in some pretty basic legend stuff for quite some time till you gear yourself up - life will be a lot less painful in getting yourself a beefer tank - and the zerk just ain't beefy!

Guardian / Warden / Brigand / Dirge

There is nothing wrong with a druid at all - they have the fastest HoTs in the game plus you get ports which are unreal for travel speed - plus you've mentioned it multiple times now

[Noxxy]

I don't want my DPS class to do huge spike damage....at least not so spiky that they draw snap agro from the mob.

Why I like the swash - they have a hate transfer plus detaunt procs and if that's not enough - toss in an evade. Placing the hate transfer on the tank is a sure fire way of getting the tank some aggro.

You raise a good point Starbuck - master crafted AC will probably fill in the gap between when you ding 80 to when you can get any good legendary drops - be prepared though, it will cost you - but tbth, if you stepped into a TSO dungeon with full MC'd they'd be wiping the stains off the walls for weeks!

Re the procs - unfortunately, not anymore - all gone bye bye - just left with the chest (small heal), legs (small DD) and weapon (whatever you like) now

[Ellay]

Basically, the smaller the group the more 'hybrid' the classes (to double up on the missing chars). The larger the group, the more 'pure' the classes. IMHO a 4 man is just on the crux between between being called a small or large group.

I think the pure classes will do fine with this method, there is no reason why I can't fill the rest of the group with other real players, trying to find a balance of what is flexible and what isn't when adding just random players into the mix. Tomorrow I'm going to try to test out melee while on auto follow and see how that works, will make an easy decision for me if multiple melee is a reality or not

[Ellay]

I tried out the melee attack dealio today, with the circle strafe around the mob, it's a little bit iffy. Is everyone's hit box the same? Trying out a few half elfs and making them as small as possible, I would circle strafe a scout type character behind the mob and it would be out of range and not want to auto run back in many times. It felt like there was too much focus to actually get going with it to make it worthwhile, spending that 2-3 seconds felt like an eternity, although in eq2 it does seem like there is a larger room for error where split decision in wow cost you a match.
Perhaps focusing on a more caster based system would be beneficial.

[Ellay]

Well playing around with melee more, and not really enjoying it - even a bard type - unless they are more effective just sitting back and playing songs, I don't plan on utilizing them in a group.

My next test is a more caster oriented group..
Thinking this Guardian / Warden / Wizard / Illusionist.
I'm opening to switching the Guardian/Warden to a different tank / healer with insight on why they work better with a Wizard/Illusionist. Thanks!

[Noxxy]

Just a note on how to effectively use melee.

Several ways to slash poke stabby stabby:

• Leave the trailer attached
  
  • Run through the mob
    So let's draw a piccy; say the blob of followers is 0, the MT is > or < or v or ^, depending on which way the tank is facing, --- is the leash or the distance back to the followers and the target is X, the '.' represents the distance
    
    You'll first spot your target in something like this formation:
    0------>......X
    
    If you run through the mob you basically want to run far enough to ensure your followers are in melee range of the mob (i.e., the tank has actually run 'too far') - so you will have this type of situation - (please note - if you position the mob dead middle between you and your blob - it will be out of melee range of the blob and prob yourself till it moves)
    0-X----> (facing away)
    
    The tank then turns and closes the distance to the mob (make sure not to stand still or the mob will close the distance resulting in the blob once again being out of melee range)
    0-X-< (facing towards)
    
    Everyones in melee range and autoattacking
    
  • Body pull and use the bungy effect of the /follow command
    All your blob is still attached (on follow) but your target has some other mobs close requiring you to bodypull back to the blob - (target in bold)
    
    0------>......X X X
    
    One effect which you can utilise in this situation is the 'bungy effect' of the leash between you and your trailer - basically - the distance bwteen your MT and the blob is not static/fixed - if your MT stops, your followers will spring/bungy up a few steps before stopping - like they are on a big rubber band basically
    
    So you have the following situation
    
    0------>..X X X Body pull the target
    
    ..0-->..X even though the tank has taken a step backwards toward the blob - the blob has continued to move forwards (i.e., bungied) thereby reducing the length of the leash
    
    Then a simple tactic to spin the mob so it's back is facing the blob
    ..0-X-< whack away
    
  • Using bungy whilst range pulling
    Sometime you just want to break out the bow and pew pew - but you also want the blob to get a whack in - no worries
    
    So we start again:
    0------>......X hit the pew pew
    
    ..0------>....X the MT steps towards the mob thus forcing the following blob to move foward
    
    ..0-->..X tank then takes a step back thus shortening the leash, blob bungies forward
    
    Now have two options - step back even further then spin the mob or step through the mob as per above
    
    Everyone will be in melee range
• Detache the trailer
  Sometimes you just want to leave the blob behind (delicate pulls involving lots of mobs or geometry [i.e., ledges, steps, etc.]) - no worries
  
  • Pull through or around your blob
    The blob is stationary, so it's just easy to pull the mob back through the blob, spin then whack
    ....0..........>..X (blob sitting off in a safe place)
    
    ....0....<.. X (angry mob inc)
    
    <...0X (pull 'too far' through your blob)
    
    ....0.X.> (do a 180 charge back through your team)
    
    ....0.X.< (spin whack loot)
    
    A simple variant of this appraoch which I use a lot as it works so well - instead of running 'through' the team I basically do an anti-clockwise (can be either) circle round the team
    ....0......>..X (blob sitting off in a safe place)
    
    ....0...<...X (angry mob inc - toss a taunt back over your shoulder if no other mobs around)
    
    ....<
    ....0....X (start circling your team)
    
    v..0..X (keep going - drop another taunt)
    
    ...0.X (nearly there)(
    ...>
    
    ....0.X.^ (nicely in front of your team with the mob between you both)
    
    ....0.X.< SLAM! Whack fest

[Ellay]

Hmm!!! I'll try that on my lowbies :P

[HomersDonut]

It sounds like you are experiencing the 'improvements' to autofollow that came in with GU51 (just last week). I'm hoping we can get some traction on this problem and get it reverted to how it used to be cause right now it is hopelessly useless.