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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Souca',index.php?page=Thread&postID=191099#post19 1099
    One other thing. Are we sure the anti-boxing clauses in Warhammer aren't just the standard "you can't play this game on more than one computer cause you only bought one copy"? Granted I know this is ultimately up to their discretion, but when I saw the verbage I thought more about the situation where I install photoshop on my computer and my friends; only one can be used at a time acordign to the EULA. Unless they sell accounts seperate from the game, you would have one copy per account. Just a thought.
    It could be. Kind of a silly stance, since the the client itself isn't really what generates revenue. I mean, the start up price of an MMO is the shelf price minus the first month's worth of subscription, which then generates revenue on a subscription basis. They really ought to just hand the client out like Warcraft does if they want to generate massive subscriptions and revenue.

    Of course, I guess that's the revenue model of a successful MMO. I suppose it is entirely feasable to try and market the thing like an ordinary PC game where you generate revenue based on units sold, but that seems short sighted and outdated to me.

    That said, it strikes me that if the GM department follows that business model, they would probably be more than content to just ban your accounts since you've already generated the revenue of a sold game. Can't really say for certain one way or the other though...

    I actually think I'm going to call that "The Diablo Principle". For those of you too young to remember, when games like Diablo and Warcraft 2 first came out, they were copy friendly, and allowed a "spawned" versions to be installed, which allowed limited gameplay even if you didn't have the disk. Not that the disk had any copy protection anyway. All you really needed was a cd writer, which wasn't too common at the time.

    Anywho, the point is, at the time, anyone who wanted to try the game could with a minimum of effort. While that situation has waned over the years, you see a moderate resurgance with the free-trials of WoW. Install WoW on every computer you come across, Blizz doesn't care, because it means more chances to get people to try the trial and ultimately the chance to hook them in to a subscription.

  2. #22

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    Big o sticky for this one, thanks!

  3. #23

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    While it would be pretty difficult to multi-box it anyway, The Chronicles of Spellborn's in-game EULA specifically states that you can "own multiple accounts, but only play one at a time." If you log into the client and read the EULA, you can see this for yourself. There is a free trial.

    I'm trying to find an online link to the EULA, but haven't been able to so far. Maybe when the game goes live it will be available on their website: http://www.tcos.com

    (Note that TCoS is a subscription-based MMO.)

  4. #24

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    I can't even tell if Spellborn is actually gold or not. The news section reports being in open beta, yet there's a subscription page and "free trial limitations".

    The Acclaim TOU says :

    Sec 1 P 2
    You can hold several accounts but you must only use one account at a time and cannot use it to transfer items between accounts.

    Sec 8 P 1

    You agree not to design, disseminate or use any third party programs designed to change the game play on the site. Any use, dissemination or design of such programs is a breach of these Terms you will be responsible for any resulting damages to Acclaim. You agree that if you disseminate, design or assist in the design of a third party program that changes the game play on Acclaim, you will pay Acclaim. liquidated damages in the sum of Hundred Thousand Dollars for each such program as liquidated damages. You agree that if you use such a program on the Acclaim website, you will pay Acclaim liquidated damages in the sum of One Thousand Dollars for each time you use a program.
    TCos Rules of Conduct

    Multiple Acclaim accounts - You can have more than one Acclaim account but you cannot sign into a game more than once at the same time to gain an unfair advantage.

    Umm...mod "TwistedEdge" says they're still in beta in the US.

    Beta or Live? 4-2-09
    We were not in OB because we were waiting on a patch. We are in beta to ensure everything on our servers are safe and secure so that once we are officially live, we do not have to worry about random server crashings. There is still work on the backend to complete.
    More Servers 4-2-09
    Servers will be added as required. Once we go live, if the populations on the servers come close to our max, then yes, we will expand to more servers. Until that point comes, we cant really comment for sure.

    In regards to the release of the game officially. No ETA on it at this point, keep watching the stickies and announcements as they will be updated once info is available.
    Seems pretty clear they don't want you even looking at thier games funny. I can send them my e-mail, but I'm pretty sure that we already have the answer.
    Blog : Herding Khats
    Team : Kina - Çroaker - Messkit - Lìfetaker - Wìdowmaker
    Newbie Guides : Multiboxing Vol. 1 - Multiboxing Vol. 2 - HotKeyNet - Jamba
    The Almighty Lax made a liar out of me, apparently I DO get prizes for it.
    *Commences Wielding the Banhammer like there's piñatas up in here and I'm Lady Thor*

    _ Forum search letting you down? Use the custom Google search _

  5. #25

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    [quote='Khatovar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=1920 33#post192033]I can't even tell if Spellborn is actually gold or not. The news section reports being in open beta, yet there's a subscription page and "free trial limitations".

    [/quote]Well, according to an [url='http://phpbb.acclaim.com/spellborn/viewtopic.php?t=1376&highlight=character+wipe']official announcement[/url] dated as 3/20 on the forums:
    Quote: Acclaim Games is pleased to announce the start of Open Beta testing for The Chronicles of Spellborn MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game). With a successful round of Closed Beta testing just completed, Acclaim opens a new PvE server and activates the Premium Subscription service as more players are invited to experience The Chronicles of Spellborn in Open Beta.


    Well now that the fluff is done... I know your real question is how do I activate my account.

    Well Click Here to Activate Your Account!

    Stuck at 7.9 and want the premium? Go here and take advantage of our introductory pricing. The deal won't be around for forever, so don't miss your chance. Get Premium Today!
    So, technically, the game is in open beta since anyone can play and game access is no longer by invitation only, but there's obviously a great deal of confusion and ambiguity on the part of the staff, as your quoted post shows us, but you can purchase a "subscription" -- if you want to call it that -- with Acclaim coins, although they might as well label it as live since you can actually pay for it right now, and the general consensus seems to be that there will be no character wipe. So, whatever they say, if you can actually pay for the game, and they aren't going to wipe everyone's characters, then why even label it as a beta? *rolls eyes* Also, I'm really confused by the wording of the moderator's post you quoted. It doesn't even make sense, and since the thread is now locked, I guess I can't post and ask for clarification.

    Not to mention that a non-Acclaim-coin-based, $14.99 per month subscription isn't even available yet, so if you want access to the rest of the game, you'll have to purchase the coins, which has caused issues for some players, and the website only says the following about the release timing for regular subscriptions:

    Coming soon for Spellborn

    1. Credit Card Subscription Option
    2. Full Game Release
    3. More In Game Events
    So, basically, zilch. As for the official forums, this thread contains the most pertinent information that you'll find about it, which really isn't much -- still just the usual "soon" cliche.

    They will be adding additional areas to the game that you can play for free, but as of right now, you can play to just level 7.9 without paying. I was interested in the game since the maximum group size is only four players, which would be great for multi-boxing, but that's obviously not an option now, heh.

  6. #26

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    I would never play any game that doesnt allow ethical multiboxers to play nor would I buy any of that companies products again for my household....

    this comment should be stickied to every Devs inbox!

    as soon as I read no hardware boxing in the previous games EULA ... i never bothered to even try the free trail period ... i have heard since i did not miss much anyway...



    heh

    DEAR DEVS ...

    I am a Multiboxer... I am anything but a chinese gold farmer nor do I use fancy macros to play unattended... I simply pay for multiple accounts and play them at the same time for MY own enjoyment... I am above average means and intelligence ... I am older than the average gamer... I am a boon to your bottom line ... DO NOT DISCLUDE us from playing your game ... our numbers are strong and multiboxing is a growing hobby among older financially secure adults... TO IGNORE US and preclude us from playing your games is a dumb financial decision from whomever made it...

    ETC...



    of course IMHO some of the DEVelopers have nto a clue about running a business or customer service anyway ... I am entitled to this opinion becuase I own and operate a large company with around 300 employees with satisfied employees and Outstanding Customer service .... www.renshawauto.com

    .....................................

    there it is copy and paste this and send it to any dev that doesnt supoort multiboxing ... I would venture to guess there are hundreds of thousands of boxers like me in the world that can make or break a new mmo based on that decision alone
    Not playing anything except Skyrim at the moment until Legion is released

  7. #27
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    Given the questions sent to each company, the responses are exactly what I would expect.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the questions to the companies were:
    "Do you allow Hardware multi-boxing?"
    "Do you allow Software multi-boxing?"

    Why would there be so many different responses? Because there is no description in the question as to what multi-boxing is. Sure, just about everyone here reading these forums understands what is meant, but the average person playing and even support personnel of the games aren't always going to know what is meant by those terms. To the average person playing an MMORPG, multi-boxing means botting. Just about everyone I see unless they know what it is about and know it's legal, will first say "oh, a bot!"

    I'm willing to bet that if a description went along with the question as to what multi-boxing is, you would have received different responses. Most of them indicating it was OK to do. If they understand that a person is at the keyboard controlling the characters by pressing a key that is sent to all instances of the game and is not automated game play, they would have said it would be allowed. If you just ask, do you allow multi-boxing, how do you know the person that is answering understands what it is you're asking?

  8. #28

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    Actually, the letter I sent was massive and very detailed. It was not included because it is very long and no one cares what I said, they only care what the various companies said. But since people seem to think it is my fault for not explaining it properly:

    Hello,

    My name is Katie ******* and I am a member of the multi-boxing community at dual-boxing.com. If you are unfamiliar with multi-boxing, it is a play style in which a single person will play multiple accounts in a game simultaneously.

    At dual-boxing.com, the community works to make a large distinction between multi-boxing and botting by remaining "committed to staying 100% compliant with the Terms of Service (ToS), End User License (EULA) and Terms of Use (ToU) which may apply to games." We do not sell our accounts, we do not sell our in-game currency, we do not use BOT programs to play for us and we do not sell leveling services. We play this many accounts because we enjoy the challenge of doing so.

    While the majority of multi-boxers do play World of Warcraft, the community grows every day to include other games as well. This is leading to some confusion as people seem to think only World of Warcraft supports or allows multi-boxing. This leads to people no longer gaming at all once they decide to stop playing WoW because it is difficult to find information about multi-boxing and other games.

    Many of us who get into multi-boxing simply can't imagine playing a single character anymore. This is exactly what happened to me recently when I decided to stop playing WoW. I wanted to play something else, but not if I couldn't multi-box with my husband. Being our own group makes gaming a million times more enjoyable for us. However, I spent 3 frustrating weeks looking for what games can be played this way. And the information I found only told me that "these programs will work," not "this company allows multi-boxing in thier games".

    And that is the core of my letter to you. Just because we -can- do something does not mean it falls within your rules and as such, within the community guidelines of dual-boxing.com. If you could please take the time to answer the below questions so that I may share this information with other multi-boxers, it would be very much appreciated. This will help us to prevent people from breaking your game rules as well as send new multi-boxers {and their multiple subscriptions} your way if this is a play style that you find acceptable.

    Please feel free to forward this e-mail to a specialist if these questions have not yet been addressed within your company. I am far more concerned with solid information than timely information, as I am asking these questions for the entire MB community, present and future, not just for myself.

    1. Do you allow Hardware multi-boxing? Hardware multi-boxing is using several computers wired together via switches or wireless mouse/keyboard combinations to play several accounts. This is usually 1 or 2 accounts per computer.

    2. Do you allow Software multi-boxing? Software multi-boxing is using one computer to run several accounts via hardware emulators or scripts that send a single key press to all open instances of a game window. See:

    Keyclone - http://www.solidice.com/keyclone/
    HotKeyNet - http://www.hotkeynet.com/
    Innerspace - http://www.lavishsoft.com/joomla/
    AutoHotKey - http://www.autohotkey.com/

    While some of these programs can be used for many, many things, the vast majority of multi-boxers will only use them in compliance with the rules set forth in your game. For example, Innerspace can be used for automation {see 3} however, most multi-boxers will refuse to use such functions. When certain people who break the rules get caught and blame the program, we are the first to say it's not the program that broke the rules, it's the user. The user is responsible for knowing what is a violation and what is not. We neither expect nor request a seal of approval on any listed program, as your rules and the products can change at any time. See below.

    3. What are your rules for distinguishing multi-boxing from botting? Many games have a 1 press = 1 action rule in that 1 input action from a key press can only equate to 1 single action taking place in game on each account.

    I press 1, my mage casts fireball, my hunter shoots a flame arrow, my tank taunts, my healer casts a buff, as that is the single action on each account located in the "1" hotbar location. 1 press, 1 action.

    I press 1 and my mage casts a stream of 4 fireballs, an ice wall, an acid splash and a daze spell, it is now 7 actions for one key press, and by many standards, automation, as 1 press has now initiated a scripted sequence of actions that no longer requires my input to take place.

    Games like EverQuest have long permitted the use of advanced scripting that allows players to use things like loops, wait commands and such. On the other hand, EverQuest2 expressly forbids such actions, allowing players only one action per key press. We are aware that rules differ even within the SAME company on DIFFERENT games.

    Many games also require that the player be able to maintain control of each individual character at any given time, by responding to game masters/customer service reps from any character.

    4. Do you have "fair play" clauses in your EULA that multi-boxers should be particularly aware of? For example, EQ2 can action players for monopolizing content. Many dungeons in that game are "contested", and not instanced, meaning at any given time, several groups can be in the same dungeon at the same time, competing for a boss mob. Camping this dungeon and intentionally preventing other players from having a chance at these mobs, especially if they are quest related, violates the fair-play clause and is actionable by game masters.

    5. Do you have an account sharing policy? Most multi-boxers make it a point to be sure that every account they play is registered only to them. Very few would take the chance of sharing with other people, however, it is often asked if spouses, children or siblings can share an account.

    6. Do you have any "Recruit-a-Friend" style offers that multi-boxers could take advantage of, or conversely are prohibited from enrolling in? Multi-boxers love promotions. Getting free time or special items for starting additional accounts is like the frosting on a cake. Things like discounts on monthly subscription fees for multiple accounts or for paying for several months in advance are also well-liked by multi-boxers.

    7. Do you have specific guards in place to prevent certain actions? Specifically, many games do not like to run in the background and cannot receive key presses passed to them. Many programs like those I listed above "correct" this by locking a window into the foreground. In some cases, this "foreground only" behavior is unintentional, or intended only as far as preventing keys from being processed when the user does not intend them to be processed {when they are alt-tabbed out to look something up on a browser, for example}. In other cases, this is fully intended to prevent people from playing more than one copy of the same game on one computer.

    In the latter instance, software boxing would be a violation of your EULA if a "lock in foreground" mechanism was used, but may well be allowed if alt-tabbing between instances to repeat key presses was used. Or neither may be allowed, meaning software multi-boxing is a violation in your game and any attempt to do so is actionable.

    I do believe these are all the vital questions that would be raised by any member of the multi-boxing community before venturing into any game. Please feel free to bring up anything else that you feel a multi-boxing player should know about your game, any information is good information to us. We always prefer to be friendly and responsible gamers in our chosen community, and we strive to be a good example.

    I sincerely thank you for taking the time to answer these questions. Hopefully they will prevent anyone from inadvertently breaking the rules of your game. And getting this information out in a clear manner, without guessing and going on "well, I haven't been banned, so it must be OK" is much more likely to get gamers to try other games and passing the word to other gamers, which is always good for the MMO community. This gives us a chance to say "These are the rules, you can't say you didn't know going in." It protects our community and yours.
    Blog : Herding Khats
    Team : Kina - Çroaker - Messkit - Lìfetaker - Wìdowmaker
    Newbie Guides : Multiboxing Vol. 1 - Multiboxing Vol. 2 - HotKeyNet - Jamba
    The Almighty Lax made a liar out of me, apparently I DO get prizes for it.
    *Commences Wielding the Banhammer like there's piñatas up in here and I'm Lady Thor*

    _ Forum search letting you down? Use the custom Google search _

  9. #29

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    Have doubled posted the following to ensure it is available in both the EQ2 forum and this thread:

    This post will have some serious repercussions for the entire EQ2 multi-boxing community if it can be further validated - if you do send any questions to SOE, make sure you query the legality of the 'simultaneous sending of keystrokes'

    NB: Before you rush of and post 'but but but my GM said keyclone/HKN/vetra was ok' - please ensure your GM knows that they are simultaneous keystroke casters

    Your 'constructive' input into this thread would be appreciated


    Simply:
    - The use of either hardware or software for the simulatenous sending of keystrokes to the same or across multiple pcs is considered character automation. As such, it is against SOE EULA and is illegal.

    Had an interesting night last night. Introduced myself to a new server (went to try pvp) and, in summary, was told by several GMs that the simultaneous broadcasting of keystrokes is considered character automation and as such is illegal.

    This simply means that plug-n-play hardware solutions such as the vetra megacaster and software applications such as keyclone, hkn and any other 'simultaneous keystroke broadcaster' are illegal in EQ2

    After reading the GM replies, I checked their understanding against previous GM responses posted in Khatovar's MB & Current MMOs.

    In Khat's post I found the reference to Ticket 090210-001499 where CSR Xavier "Spadaccino" M. replied:
    'Every action taken by a character has to be the result of a unique keystroke. Usually this is accomplished by multiple computers with multiple keyboards, though it is permissible to use one keyboard to control several computers through a selector switch. You are allowed to use 3rd party software, as long as you do not in any way manipulate or change the client (EQ2) program and as long as you are at the controls and capable or responding from each character.'

    If we analyse this further - Every action taken by a character has to be the result of a unique keystroke. - the simultaneous sending of keystrokes is not as such 'unique' - it is cloned. Whilst Xavier does go on to mention 'You are allowed to use 3rd party software' - I believe this is in relation to a software selector and defineately not a 'key cloner'

    For your information, I have included an edited version of the incident report I submitted last night:

    Incident: 091215-002136

    Response (GM Yxyran)
    12/16/2009 12:49 AM

    [shortened]…The problem occurs when you…send commands…at the same time…it is important that you understand why you cannot use any device or program to allow you to control more than one character with one key stroke.

    It offers you an unfair advantage over players using the game and interface as designed. It essentially accomplishes an action that…could not be done in the course of play. There is no way to link the actions of two separate characters in game. No way to make them work in sync where you take action with one character and it triggers an automatic action from another. You have to use separate keystrokes for each character's actions. Each character must be under the direct control of the player at all times. Anything that circumvents that direct control constitutes automation. Automation makes them a bot.

    Thank you for your time,
    Game Master Yxyran
    "The Moon Moth"


    Response (GM Kaerytha)
    12/15/2009 08:58 PM

    [Shortened – message relayed from the Lead GM on Nagafen]…In addition, simultaneous key broadcasting is not permitted. So if you are pressing one key on your keyboard, and it's causing all 6 of your characters to cast, or attack or perform any action simultaneously then that is something we would consider character automation, which is prohibited….

    Safe Travels,

    GM Kaerytha
    EverQuest II
    Sony Online Entertainment

  10. #30

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    I've been watching both posts in the EQ2 section.

    That's a pretty strong turnabout from the responses I got for the CSR Xavier ticket and the second ticket 090306-000046.

    Especially after the second ticket where I very specifically state that software multiboxing uses programs "that send a single key press to all open instances of a game window" and then go on to discuss "Many games have a 1 press = 1 action rule in that 1 input action from a key press can only equate to 1 single action taking place in game on each account.", where I am told "If you are at your computer while the character is being played, then multi-boxing is fine. Generally speaking we will only take action against people who automate their characters to play unattended. If you are suspected of botting then the GM will typically send the character a tell to see if they are at the keyboard."

    Keep me aprised, I'll edit the main post.
    Blog : Herding Khats
    Team : Kina - Çroaker - Messkit - Lìfetaker - Wìdowmaker
    Newbie Guides : Multiboxing Vol. 1 - Multiboxing Vol. 2 - HotKeyNet - Jamba
    The Almighty Lax made a liar out of me, apparently I DO get prizes for it.
    *Commences Wielding the Banhammer like there's piñatas up in here and I'm Lady Thor*

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