Addons free from now on, per Blizzard: KeyClone okay?

[Zal]

Wow, how is this thread even still in discussion....
Keyclone: Clearly not illegal. If you think it is, don't use it / stop boxing

/thread

[Khatovar]

Carbonite can use for:
WoW
removing free space from your HDD

Keyclose uses:
Rob magic

I lol'd

[Los]

it won't matter what I say since you seem come up with your own version of the posts to reply to. I cited my points, you chose to ignore them and claim victory in the end by redefining the argument so you were on the other side.

This is what makes Sam the ULTIMATE Troll... He can't be beaten. No matter how much evidence you throw at him, he chooses to respond with something that typically makes no sense and thinks he wins. The longer we continue to respond to him the longer he will continue to troll here. Its time to start the campaign of "DON'T FEED THE TROLLS."

Go to work gur! :thumbsup:

[RobinGBrown]

Best ad for carbonite ever:

Sure helped me level faster as I am new to the game.

21 days /played to level 45

p.s. Can we just assume that I've flamed Sam intolerably and get this thread locked please, it's gone the way of all deathwalker threads...

[Souca]

Keep you head in the sand; it's warm in there :-)

It's how I stay grounded. It also has the nice benefit of protecting me from falling pieces of sky

- Souca -

[Jubber]

Except Keyclone is not specifically an ingame WoW addon. It works outside of WoW for other games just as well. Things like questhelper and carbonite work strictly for WoW. In the case of Carbonite, they were trying to make money off of WoW.
This is similiar to the argument of where are they gonna stop next, Vent? I don't agree with this particular argument. Vent works outside of wow for many platforms and games. There is no reason for them to forbid the use of said software. They were targeting addons that fit within their "addons" folders.

Did you read any of my post ?

I did read your post. I just didn't agree. Which is why I wrote my post. Ingame, they have every right to do this. Out of game they have merits. If WoW turned off their game today, things like questhelper and carbonite would do nothing. Those addons would gain nothing. Keyclone would still be around. It still has a market. Keyclone works very well for WoW, but WoW isn't it's only use. This is why Keyclone will be ok.

I think it's totally conceivable that Blizz would extend the "must be free" to any software addition; not just in game;

"Would" is a strong term in this situation. "Could" is a more likely term but again at that point they would be stepping outside the boundaries of their intellectual property. Their game. Which is why I used the Vent argument. Sure at any given time they could say Vent is no longer allowed for use with WoW and program warden to search for it, but they can't stop Vent from charging for their services.

[Talamarr]

Yes they could more directly prohibit mboxing - but if their intent is to "level the playing field" as it is claimed for add ons; that could apply to mboxing software - they could well say that mboxing is fine but you can't charge for the tools to do it - now it may be harder to defend, but I'm sure their lawyers budget is a bit bigger than keyclone's. Again I'm not saying it will happen or it's even remotely blizz's intention or in their interest - just that all the dismissive reactions are more like stuffing one's head in the sand than an actual argument - again Keyclone's usage is lot more comparable to Carbonite's than people want to admit.

I agree with the other posters, this isn't even close to the same thing as an addon. By your same logic, hardware makers of KVM switches would have to give their stuff away for free or it couldn't be used for multi-boxing. That is just not realistic. It's not even on the radar. Blizzard would ban multi-boxing outright if it were to do anything like that.

[zanthor]

I think it all boils down to the wording of the policy.

Lets look at Blizzards official policy...

1) Add-ons must be free of charge.
All add-ons must be distributed free of charge. Developers may not create "premium" versions of add-ons with additional for-pay features, charge money to download an add-on, charge for services related to the add-on, or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on.

So lets assume Blizzard decides that Linux really is the future and they don't want to support Windows or MacOS...

Now compare it to this made up crap...

1) Operating Systems must be free of charge.
All operating systems must be distributed free of charge. Developers may not create "premium" versions of operating systems with additional for-pay features, charge money to download an operating system, charge for services related to the operating system, or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an operating system.

Or lets take this to a hardware level...

1) Keyboards must be free of charge.
All keyboards must be distributed free of charge. Manufacturers may not create "extended" versions of keyboards with additional for-pay features, charge money to purchase a keyboard, charge for services related to the keyboard, or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to aquire or access a keyboard.

I'm certain every member of this community will say that the 2nd and 3rd are completely off base and Blizzard has no rights to dictate either of those.

Now on the other hand...

1) Add-ons must be free of charge.
All add-ons must be distributed free of charge. Players may not utilize "premium" versions of add-ons with additional for-pay features, charge money to download an add-on, charge for services related to the add-on, or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on.

And compare it to this made up crap (point of view changed for ease of demonstration)...

1) Operating Systems must be Windows XP, Vista or Mac OS X.
All operating systems must be legally licensed copies of Windows XP, Vista or Mac OS X. Players may not utilize any other operating system to access the World of Warcraft Servers.

Or lets take this to a hardware level...

1) Keyboards Policy.
All keyboards must be standard 101 key Keyboards with no extended functionality. Any extended features utilized with World of Warcraft will result in the account using the Keyboard being banned.

...

Blizzard has no rights to tell me as a developer I cannot write a bit of LUA code and sell it after I obfuscate it. I can drycode to my hearts content using API calls that are clearly documented on the web in any fashion I want. The moment I connect to blizzards server with my obfuscated code - I am in violation of their TOS and EULA and then they can ban me if they want - or more likely simply block the addon.

That version actually accomidates what they wish to achieve quite well without squashing the Addon Authors rights.

I know many of you will say it's the same thing - but it's not. If a serial killer is lynched by a mob, it's a felony crime, if the same serial killer is brought to trial, found guilty and executed by the state, it's capitol punishment. Both end the same way, but they are drastically different paths to the same conclusion.

[Taliesin]

I think it's totally conceivable that Blizz would extend the "must be free" to any software addition; not just in game;

They can try if they like, but I think you're missing the point of why they are enforcing this. They don't want people directly profitting from software that is specifically designed to exist because of WoW. It's part of their argument of why goldselling is not allowed (real money is being exchanged for their intellectual property).

Keyclone falls into the realm of OS and hardware multiplexing, not just a WoW plugin. Blizzard would now have to explain why Keyclone must be free, even though it has uses far beyond just playing their game. I agree with the earlier comment by Talamarr that it would be akin to Blizzard saying that KVMs (with keystroke broadcasting) must now be free or banned altogether. Also, why wouldn't keyboard extensions not be banned then too, since they are also specifically designed to earn money by improving gameplay?

The comparison between in-game quest addons and Keyclone is pretty remote. Unless Keyclone included features specifically designed to work only with WoW, they really can't claim that its a WoW-specific tool.

[Souca]

Blizzard has no rights to tell me as a developer I cannot write a bit of LUA code and sell it after I obfuscate it.

No they don't. This isn't relevant so please stop bringing it up.

I can drycode to my hearts content using API calls that are clearly documented on the web in any fashion I want.

This is dubious at best. You have no right to those APIs beyond what you are granted. How you get them is irrelevant. The only reason I'll give you dubious is that the APIs themselves may be hard to protect in the same way phrases and titles are. The fact that they are published doesn't change anything. In the end though this is irrelevant since this isn't what the statement or EULA are discussing.

The moment I connect to blizzards server with my obfuscated code - I am in violation of their TOS and EULA and then they can ban me if they want - or more likely simply block the addon.

Yes. Also, the moment and user that has received your addon logons they may face the same actions.

That version actually accomidates what they wish to achieve quite well without squashing the Addon Authors rights.

You keep refering to "Addon Author's rights" as if they are something other than a standard person's rights. The fact that they write an addon doesn't give them any special treatment. All that matters is that they have used the APIs (owned and licensed by Blizzard) in a manner in violation with the terms of the license. End of story. They have no rights as a "wow addon writer" beyond those Blizzard grants them. They still have the same rights as a person that doesn't write addons, but then again people don't have a right to violate license terms or contract law because they feel like it.

I know many of you will say it's the same thing - but it's not. If a serial killer is lynched by a mob, it's a felony crime, if the same serial killer is brought to trial, found guilty and executed by the state, it's capitol punishment. Both end the same way, but they are drastically different paths to the same conclusion.

What, no Nazis or Hitler references? If you're gonna try and make this into an inaccurate emotional argument at least go big with it.

The EULA is, and has been, clear on the profit issue for a long time. Anyone who wrote an addon and didn't read the EULA has no one to blame but themselves for "their wasted tiem and effort" and no right "to be compensated for all their hard work". It's cut and dry.

As for Blizzard learning to goosestep and taking up the banner of National Socialism, everyone is free to their theories, but don't use it as justification as to why the issue at hand is wrong or invalid.

- Souca -